S.598 Same Sex Marriage

[Blanca Busa]

Haha, the gay switch.......don't want any of those in my house!!! I'm wondering if a woman could be so horrible, a man could just throw his hands up, surrender, and go play for the other team??

I wouldn't doubt that there are men out there who've had enough bad relationships with women be it one or many who turned to the other sex. Same for women.

[captain]

Doyle, you hit the nail squarely on the head, on several points. I usually refrain from posting in controversial subjects only because of the eventual flaming received/expected if you didn't go along with the majority opinion, especially political threads. I think what is vital is that folks realize that they are not going to change someone's long-held, ingrained belief by posting an opposing viewpoint or opinion. I'm certainly not asking someone to accept a behavior, only try to accept the individual. What may have been different about this subject is most(??) people may have someone close to them either in or out of the closet, known, or suspected. I say love them all and move forward in life.

Poppy to your point... I just want to make sure that I come across correctly.. When a person calls himself a Christian it adds him to a much larger group, there is diversity even within the Christian fellowship. Many of the Christian groups do not beleive in all of the same things but one thing holds true and that is Jesus Christ. Just as I call myself a motorcyclist that embodies a lot of different group doesn't it, that leaves a lot of room for disagreement and stereotyping, heck anyone that rides a sportbike has been stereotyped before you ever put your leg on the bike. Over the years I bet you all have seen "That Guy" that tells everyone what a great rider he is and how many years he has been riding, when put to the test the guy may have owned a bike for a long time but never practiced riding so he was no better than you, he could talk the talk but just couldn't make it happen. We see the same thing with Christanity, people that are condemning, judgemental, people that throw scripture around to serve their purpose and not used in the context the scripture was written at all. When I come to you all and tell you what I believe is isn't to tell you that I am right and you are wrong it is honestly to tell everyone why I believe what I do.

My life is led these days by the bible, the more I read and study the more I understand... I said it before, there are a lot of really great people out in the world that I fear will not be in heaven with me. My goal is to simply pass on to folks what I have found in an effort to give them the same salvation I have. If I knew that you were riding a bike that had a flat tire and everything I ever knew about bikes told me that it was unsafe would I hold that to myself or pass on infomation? Surely I would tell you about it, in an effort to make sure you were safe, I would never hold that information from you if I really cared for your safety. If you looked at your tire and you felt it was fine to ride on then so be it, I might still be concerned but you were informed.. The same holds true for Jesus Christ, if I see you out there without him I am concerned, if you look and decide it's not for you the only thing I can do at that point is hope that you find him and know I have done as I was commanded to do. Its a sincere desire to see better things for all.... great job keeping things civil...

cap

[mjn]

Poppy to your point... I just want to make sure that I come across correctly.. When a person calls himself a Christian it adds him to a much larger group, there is diversity even within the Christian fellowship. Many of the Christian groups do not beleive in all of the same things but one thing holds true and that is Jesus Christ. Just as I call myself a motorcyclist that embodies a lot of different group doesn't it, that leaves a lot of room for disagreement and stereotyping, heck anyone that rides a sportbike has been stereotyped before you ever put your leg on the bike. Over the years I bet you all have seen "That Guy" that tells everyone what a great rider he is and how many years he has been riding, when put to the test the guy may have owned a bike for a long time but never practiced riding so he was no better than you, he could talk the talk but just couldn't make it happen. We see the same thing with Christanity, people that are condemning, judgemental, people that throw scripture around to serve their purpose and not used in the context the scripture was written at all. When I come to you all and tell you what I believe is isn't to tell you that I am right and you are wrong it is honestly to tell everyone why I believe what I do.

My life is led these days by the bible, the more I read and study the more I understand... I said it before, there are a lot of really great people out in the world that I fear will not be in heaven with me. My goal is to simply pass on to folks what I have found in an effort to give them the same salvation I have. If I knew that you were riding a bike that had a flat tire and everything I ever knew about bikes told me that it was unsafe would I hold that to myself or pass on infomation? Surely I would tell you about it, in an effort to make sure you were safe, I would never hold that information from you if I really cared for your safety. If you looked at your tire and you felt it was fine to ride on then so be it, I might still be concerned but you were informed.. The same holds true for Jesus Christ, if I see you out there without him I am concerned, if you look and decide it's not for you the only thing I can do at that point is hope that you find him and know I have done as I was commanded to do. Its a sincere desire to see better things for all.... great job keeping things civil...

cap

Absolutely fantastic post.

[Mr Brown]

This is from my heart:
This thread has restored my faith not only in this board, but in our society. It seems that over the last few years we have suffered a complete loss of civility in our daily lives. We have all sorts of beliefs and opinions here, and we have discussed them, expressed our differences and conducted ourselves in a civil, respectful manner. We as a society have to learn that while we may have differing opinions and reasons for those opinions, we must remain civil for any progress to be made. Being hateful, mean-spirited and rude does nothing to cross any ideological divide, in fact it widens divisions that might otherwise have been bridged.
Thank you to ALL who have participated in this thread, while I might not agree with your opinions or beliefs, I completely respect them, and each of you as individuals.

[Poppy]

Captain, thanks for posting that! Very nice!!

[exc911ence]

This is from my heart:
This thread has restored my faith not only in this board, but in our society. *snip*

Funny, for me it's done a bit of the opposite. I am actually surprised at the number of hateful anti-gay and homophobic responses here. It always amazes me (read: horrifies me) when people put their faith in indoctrinated dogma over the rights of their fellow human beings. As strong as your faith may be, humans are real and all around you to see, and each one deserves the same respect that you demand for yourself. Until the day comes that we can put each other over ancient mythology, we'll never advance as a race. This thread has made me realize that we still have a long way to go.

That's just my , no offense intended.

[lil charlie]

Here we go again.....................

[exc911ence]

Here we go again.....................

I wasn't aware that we had finished.

[Blanca Busa]

The terms:
Anti-Gay
Homophobic
and
Anti-Semitic

do not exist in my vocabulary. I call it freedom of expression.
I have rights to speak out against things without being 'labeled'.

[lil charlie]

I wasn't aware that we had finished.

This is the third time we've argued about this. Hahahaha

[BusaBret]

The terms:
Anti-Gay
Homophobic
and
Anti-Semitic

do not exist in my vocabulary. I call it freedom of expression.
I have rights to speak out against things without being 'labeled'.

I bet the other side would say the same thing....

[Mr Brown]

Funny, for me it's done a bit of the opposite. I am actually surprised at the number of hateful anti-gay and homophobic responses here. It always amazes me (read: horrifies me) when people put their faith in indoctrinated dogma over the rights of their fellow human beings. As strong as your faith may be, humans are real and all around you to see, and each one deserves the same respect that you demand for yourself. Until the day comes that we can put each other over ancient mythology, we'll never advance as a race. This thread has made me realize that we still have a long way to go.

That's just my , no offense intended.

None taken. My point was that such issues as this have a high potential for heated exchanges, which can very quickly deteriorate into ugly comments and hurtful statements. This is particularly true on the internet where people can hide behind virtual anonymity. This thread did not take a bad turn, the subject matter was discussed thoroughly and respectfully.

[Blanca Busa]

I bet the other side would say the same thing....

I'm sure they do and that's why I've not insulted any of them or used any derogatory terms toward them.
It is just that when a person like me voices his opinion against certain things I get labeled.

Tell me what are the opposite terms of the ones I used above?
HeteroPhobe? Never heard it.
Anti-straight? Never heard it.
Opposite of Anti-Semitic is? Don't know?

[BusaBret]

I was referring more to the Freedom of Expression you mentioned. I never said you did anything.
My point is everyone has the same rights. Race, religion, political affiliation nor sexual orientation has any bearing.

[Warchild]

Well, it's time for the "Rain of Frogs" up here in Washington state, thanks to the godless heathen State Legislature!



Yea verily, pray for us, as these blasphemous, weak-and-backsliding House/Senate pagans have actually passed the Washington same sex marriage act!

Washington House Passes Gay Marriage Bill

We now join the ranks of other SSM states, such as New York, Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont and Washington, D.C. And I guess we need to add California back in as well, as the 9th U.S. District Court correctly ruled that denying basic human civil rights is unconstitutional.

Those that wish to control the behavior of others are not winning their war!

Which, IMO, is as it should be. I have yet to hear a single logical, legal argument, why same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed. Those opposed to same sex marriage can only offer arguments that are steeped in moral aversion/personal belief. Sorry, that doesn't cut it with regard to justification of denying equal rights for all. Not being able to unjustifiably force people to conform to how you want them to be, isn't an infringement on your freedoms.

[skydivr]

They reap what they sow.

[BusaBret]

[tjdobb]

It just proves that the aliens that brought us here want all of us to evolve into one race, one color, one type, so we can re-produce with ourselves and be the ultimate slave making factory that they put us here for. Just think when we can produce as one type and one race in a few million years there will be no arguing. This is to the aliens












On another note, I for one believe in God and believe that it a disorder and the government should treat this as a disorder and give them all disability. Did i mention I like Women and that makes me a lesbian so I should qualify for disability too!

[Blanca Busa]

Well, it's time for the "Rain of Frogs" up here in Washington state, thanks to the godless heathen State Legislature!



Yea verily, pray for us, as these blasphemous, weak-and-backsliding House/Senate pagans have actually passed the Washington same sex marriage act!

Washington House Passes Gay Marriage Bill

We now join the ranks of other SSM states, such as New York, Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont and Washington, D.C. And I guess we need to add California back in as well, as the 9th U.S. District Court correctly ruled that denying basic human civil rights is unconstitutional.

Those that wish to control the behavior of others are not winning their war!

Which, IMO, is as it should be. I have yet to hear a single logical, legal argument, why same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed. Those opposed to same sex marriage can only offer arguments that are steeped in moral aversion/personal belief. Sorry, that doesn't cut it with regard to justification of denying equal rights for all. Not being able to unjustifiably force people to conform to how you want them to be, isn't an infringement on your freedoms.

Will the voting populace in Washigton have a say on this come November or has that already happened?
If so we will see what the majority says. If a majority votes for it than I will stand by their vote. I may not agree with it but I will have to abide by it.

[Warchild]

If so we will see what the majority says. If a majority votes for it than I will stand by their vote. I may not agree with it but I will have to abide by it.

But Blanca, it no workee that way!

The "majority rules" argument does not apply when the issue involves basic human civil rights.... civil rights don't get "voted on" by the public. If they did, you would likely still see "white only" drinking fountains, bathrooms, etc in the deep South.

The reason they don't get "voted upon" is that America is a constitutional republic, which means that the majority can not just sh*t upon on the civil rights of the minority, simply because they don't like them.

And marriage is a civil right. SCOTUS has ruled it a civil right several times, the most famous being Loving v. Virginia (1967). This means if the various religious groups want to succeed at preventing same-sex marriage, they need a reason that passes strict constitutional scrutiny to prohibit marriage.

None of the following are legal reasons... the bible, one's personal beliefs, Yahweh, religion, ancient myths and legends, Moroni, saintly interventions, or any other intolerant paranoia driven by celestial indoctrination.

IOW, they need to demonstrate an actual legal premise that is based in reality.