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Thread: Wisconsin wtf ?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GsxrBots View Post
    It would add up to like $22 million...

    Highlights of Gov. Walker's budget repair bill
    where does that link list the amount of deficit caused by collective bargaining (pensions, salary, and paid leave.)?

    there are deficits in that link in the 150million range. i know their pension is similar to mine yet mine is 100% funded because the increase in pay-in and decrease in pay out we voted in.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    Here's another one...
    I know, I know, Fox news, but these are the Senators talking..
    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-the...s039-wisconsin


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  3. #43
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    public employees are not like private sector employees.

    and cannot be treated as such.

    when a private sector employee is sub-standard he can be fired. private sector pensions are not funded by tax money. when a private sector company cannot sustain itself it will go bankrupt.

    Public Employees should not be allowed to "collective bargain".....why?

    because they can bribe lawmakers, and influence the process. this leads to such cost prohibitive pension, pay and benefits plans that it is not sustainable.....

    if a state were a private business it would file bankruptcy.

    But, it cannot...so it raises taxes.

    THE PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY WANT THIS TO STOP.....THIS IS THE AMERICAN WAY!

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    I feel the biggest issue is our future generation's. I have no problem with teachers being well taking care of. If we where leading the world in eduction. However we have falling behind the rest of the world. No all of this is not the teachers problem. Some of it is do the idiots in D.C. However this country needs to start making some major changes.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    Okay, I have some time to type now. Here are some of the MAJOR things wrong with the collective bargaining practices that have been going on here for years. I'll start with the one that peeves me to no end.
    Part of their contracts state that mandatory OT is given out from the lowest seniority to the highest, while voluntary OT is given out from the opposite. Now the problem lies in the fact that these people can call in sick for their first shift, and then come in and work OT for OT rate. That's some crap right there. Plus I mentioned a few posts ago about the way that the pensions are based on highest salary. I was wrong about the term required to make that salary. They only need to work at the higher salary for 3 MONTHS to qualify for a pension based on that salary. That's pretty crappy too. This is not just teachers I'm talking about here, but all of the public sector union employees in the state of Wisconsin. Their are many more as well, but these are the super disappointing ones happening here. All of which won't go away right away, but will definitely go away when the Union contracts expire. You guys also don't realize that this is ALL we hear about on the radio, the news, the paper, walking in the supermarket, etc. It gets old. REAL quick. I'm done with it, but yet I find myself here typing about it..
    m_ridgeway likes this.


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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GsxrBots View Post
    Okay, I have some time to type now. Here are some of the MAJOR things wrong with the collective bargaining practices that have been going on here for years. I'll start with the one that peeves me to no end.
    Part of their contracts state that mandatory OT is given out from the lowest seniority to the highest, while voluntary OT is given out from the opposite. Now the problem lies in the fact that these people can call in sick for their first shift, and then come in and work OT for OT rate. That's some crap right there. Plus I mentioned a few posts ago about the way that the pensions are based on highest salary. I was wrong about the term required to make that salary. They only need to work at the higher salary for 3 MONTHS to qualify for a pension based on that salary. That's pretty crappy too. This is not just teachers I'm talking about here, but all of the public sector union employees in the state of Wisconsin. Their are many more as well, but these are the super disappointing ones happening here. All of which won't go away right away, but will definitely go away when the Union contracts expire. You guys also don't realize that this is ALL we hear about on the radio, the news, the paper, walking in the supermarket, etc. It gets old. REAL quick. I'm done with it, but yet I find myself here typing about it..
    Well like I said.......I guess these things happen when there's no Beach

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    Quote Originally Posted by m_ridgeway View Post
    where does that link list the amount of deficit caused by collective bargaining (pensions, salary, and paid leave.)?

    there are deficits in that link in the 150million range. i know their pension is similar to mine yet mine is 100% funded because the increase in pay-in and decrease in pay out we voted in.
    Here's some more that just came out...

    "Source: WLUK-TV, 3/3/11 -- Teachers Receiving Two Pensions
    Due to a 1982 provision of their collective bargaining agreement, Milwaukee Public School teachers actually receive two pensions upon retirement instead of one. The contribution to the second pension is equal to 4.2% of a teacher’s salary, with the school district making 100% of the contribution, just like they do for the first pension. This extra benefit costs taxpayers more than $16 million per year.

    Source: February 17, 2010 Press Release, Process of developing FY 11 budget begins Milwaukee Public Schools - Almost $10,000 Per Year for Doing Nothing
    While the Green Bay Emeritus Program actually requires teachers to at least show up for work, the Madison Emeritus Program doesn't even require that. In addition to their pension pay outs, retired Madison public school teachers receive annual payments of at least $9,884.18 per year for enrolling in the Emeritus Program, which requires ZERO days of work. hen this program began, 20 days of work per year were required. Through collective bargaining, the union successfully negotiated this down to ZERO days.

    Source: Madison Teachers Inc. Web site - No Volunteer Crossing Guards Allowed
    A Wausau public employee union filed a grievance to prohibit a local volunteer from serving as a school crossing guard. The 86-year-old lives just two blocks away and serves everyday free of charge. Principal Steve Miller says, "He said, you know, this gives me a reason to get up in the morning to come and help these kids in the neighborhood." But for a local union that represents crossing guards, it isn't that simple. Representatives didn't want to go on camera but say if a crossing guard is needed, then one should be officially hired by the city.

    Source: WAOW-TV, 1/27/10 - $6,000 Extra for Carrying a Pager
    Some state employees, due to the nature of their positions, are required to carry pagers during off-duty hours in order to respond to emergency situations. Due to the collective bargaining agreements, these employees are compensated an extra five hours of pay each week, whether they are paged or not. For an employee earning an average salary of $50,000 per year, this requirement can cost more than $6,000 in additional compensation.

    Source: 2008-09 Agreement between the State of Wisconsin and AFSCME Council 24 - Arbitrator Reinstates Porn-Watching Teacher
    A Cedarburg school teacher was reinstated by an arbitrator after being fired for viewing pornography on a school computer. The school district ultimately succeeded in terminating the teacher only after taking the case to the Wisconsin Supreme Court at great cost to the taxpayers.

    Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/23/08 - ‘Outstanding First Year Teacher’ Laid Off
    Milwaukee Public Schools teacher Megan Sampson was laid off less than one week after being named Outstanding First Year Teacher by the Wisconsin Council of English Teachers. She lost her job because the collective bargaining agreement requires layoffs to be made based on seniority rather than merit. Informed that her union had rejected a lower-cost health care plan, that still would have required zero contribution from teachers, Sampson said, “Given the opportunity, of course I would switch to a different plan to save my job, or the jobs of 10 other teachers.

    Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 6/14/10 - Union Opposes Cost-Saving Lawn Mowing Program
    As a cost cutting measure, Racine County began using county inmates to cut the grass in medians and right-of-ways at no cost to the taxpayers. A county employee union filed a grievance indicating it was the right of government workers to cut the grass, even though it would cost the taxpayers dramatically more.

    Source: Racine Journal Times, 5/12/10 - The $150,000 Bus Driver
    In 2009, the City of Madison’s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009. "That's the (drivers') contract," said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson.

    Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10 - $150,000 Correctional Officers
    Correctional Officer collective bargaining agreements allow officers a practice known as “sick leave stacking.” Officers can call in sick for a shift, receiving 8 hours of sick pay, and then are allowed to work the very next shift, earning time-and-a-half for overtime. This results in the officer receiving 2.5 times his or her rate of pay, while still only working 8 hours. In part because of these practices, 13 correctional officers made more than $100,000 in 2009, despite earning base wages of less than $60,000 per year. The officers received an average of $66,000 in overtime pay for an average annual salary of more than $123,000 with the highest paid receiving $151,181.

    Source: Department of Corrections - Paid-Time off for Union Activities
    In Milwaukee County alone, because the union collectively bargained for paid time off, fourteen employees receive salary and benefits for doing union business. Of the fourteen, three are on full-time release for union business. Milwaukee County spent over $170,000 in salary alone for these employees to only participate in union activities such as collective bargaining.

    Surrender of Management Rights
    Because of collecting bargaining, unions have included provisions in employee contracts that have a direct fiscal impact such as not allowing management to schedule workers based on operational needs and requiring notice and approval by the union prior to scheduling changes. As County Executive Walker attempted to reduce work hours based on budget pressures and workload requirements by instituting a 35 hour work week to avoid layoffs, which the union opposed. Additionally, government cannot explore privatization of functions that could save taxpayers money.

    WEAC Trust
    Currently many school districts participate in WEAC trust because WEAC collectively bargains to get as many school districts across the state to participate in this union run health insurance plan as possible. Union leadership benefits from members participating in this plan. If school districts enrolled in the state employee health plan, it would save school districts up to $68 million per year. Beyond that if school districts had the flexibility to look for health insurance coverage outside of WEA trust or the state plan, additional savings would likely be realized.

    Viagra for Teachers
    The Milwaukee Teachers Education Association (MTEA) tried to use a policy established by collective bargaining to obtain health insurance coverage that specifically paid for Viagra, but they withdrew the attempt. Cost to taxpayers would have been $786,000 a year.
    Reference: Milwaukee Schools Ban Viagra From Teachers and Union Sues For Discrimination - ABC News

    Unrealistic Overtime Provisions
    On a state level, the Department of Corrections allows correctional workers who call in sick to collect overtime if they work a shift on the exact same day. The specific provision that allows this to happen was collectively bargained for in their contract. Cost to taxpayers $4.8 million."


    "I came into this world screaming and covered in someone else's blood... I have no problem going out the same way...."

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    I see all the problems you listed, but it's a result of unions using influence to get whatever they want. Same way lobbyists do, I don't think the solution is to legislate out peoples rights to collective bargaining. Who were the individuals that agreed to the ludicrous contracts. I think they are more to blame than a member. Most members would agree to a contract that's balanced and fair I would think.

    I think some of the stuff listed goes on in non union environments as well. Such as the pager deal, I know nurses and non union city employees that get compensated for being on call. Some sounds like plain abuse by management by allowing employees to get away with murder.

    Seems like as many mistakes have been made by politicians as unions only the politicians are wanting the union to take the fall for them.
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  9. #49
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    I'm not going to deny that at all ridgeway.

    Just that you had asked for the ways that eliminating collective bargaining was going to save the money. This came up, and I thought it was interesting. I'm never going to say this is all the unions fault, but the union people need to realize that this isn't the government taking away their rights, but the rights of the people that have taken advantage of this stuff for far too long.


    "I came into this world screaming and covered in someone else's blood... I have no problem going out the same way...."

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    It is the gov taking away the right to collectively bargain instead of cleaning house on all these people agreeing on contracts that are unsustainable. Like I said before I think it's misdirection for the real problem, but thanks for that. I see alot of unnecessary liability theRe. Just like the overtime stacking. We cannot do that in out contract. Even my vacation will not add into overtime and does not count in my weekly 40. It's straight pay no matter what. They should not be allowed to use sick leave for hour stacking either, although I know some places you lose sick leave so people feel obligated to use it vs letting it expire.
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  11. #51
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    This week in the news Marshall and Isley (M&I Bank) Ceo published the letter he received from the Union stating that if they continued to donate to Walker's campaign that they would have their members pull all of the money from their accounts and actively protest against their bank. Same thing happened to a grocery story chain named Sendiks. Both of which are a VERY big part of Wisconsin and Milwaukee business. They have been picketing outside Sendiks since they did nothing despite the threats, but M&I went to the press with the letter.
    There is no way to get rid of the people agreeing on the contracts either. That seems to be as much of a problem if not more. The Unions won't budge here. They've gotten too powerful in most people's opinion. Its only getting worse here instead of better.

    I understand the sick leave thing, that happens at my wifes (non-union) job. If she doesn't use her sick or personal days, she loses them. But she sure as heck can't call in for a personal day, then come back and work for overtime!


    "I came into this world screaming and covered in someone else's blood... I have no problem going out the same way...."

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    someone close to wisconsin, finally found sum1 lol

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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blanca Busa View Post
    I just hope all this doesn't affect the cheese industry cuz I likes me sum sharp cheddar with my summer sausage
    want me to ship you some ? it can be done

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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    i pay for my own insurance. went up 17% last year and 8% this year i just found out last week. why shouldn't everyone have to pay for their insurance? i do not ever follow any of this stuff so ..... i have friends in unions here and they are fine with paying for their health insurance but some of the people they work with get all bent out of shape and butt hurt about it. it's ridiculous.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Wisconsin wtf ?

    Quote Originally Posted by m_ridgeway View Post
    It is the gov taking away the right to collectively bargain instead of cleaning house on all these people agreeing on contracts that are unsustainable. Like I said before I think it's misdirection for the real problem, but thanks for that. I see alot of unnecessary liability theRe. Just like the overtime stacking. We cannot do that in out contract. Even my vacation will not add into overtime and does not count in my weekly 40. It's straight pay no matter what. They should not be allowed to use sick leave for hour stacking either, although I know some places you lose sick leave so people feel obligated to use it vs letting it expire.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Quote Originally Posted by GsxrBots View Post
    This week in the news Marshall and Isley (M&I Bank) Ceo published the letter he received from the Union stating that if they continued to donate to Walker's campaign that they would have their members pull all of the money from their accounts and actively protest against their bank. Same thing happened to a grocery story chain named Sendiks. Both of which are a VERY big part of Wisconsin and Milwaukee business. They have been picketing outside Sendiks since they did nothing despite the threats, but M&I went to the press with the letter.
    There is no way to get rid of the people agreeing on the contracts either. That seems to be as much of a problem if not more. The Unions won't budge here. They've gotten too powerful in most people's opinion. Its only getting worse here instead of better.

    I understand the sick leave thing, that happens at my wifes (non-union) job. If she doesn't use her sick or personal days, she loses them. But she sure as heck can't call in for a personal day, then come back and work for overtime!


    I have been reading this thread and was curious as to how things worked out or have changed a year later....?? Sorry, but since 2001, my boots have have mainly been on foriegn soil... Its easy to lose sight of things that are happening in the U.S.
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