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  1. #1
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    Blanca BusaLess's Avatar
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    Default Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Well just had a meeting with 2 of my associates.
    While we were supposed to be discussing upcoming events all they wanted to do was attack me and my Vice President ?
    To preface.
    One is former Israeli lifelong military and one of the designers of 'Cornershot' a device which allows you to shoot around corners.
    CornerShot Site
    Other worked in their intel agencies in the 80s and now does security consulting here in Palm Beach for VIPs.

    These are both Obama voters HARDCORE !

    Well it seems that now since VP Biden has come out and condemned Israel on the decision to continue with settlements all the sudden he is my VP ?

    Didnt even vote for the guy ?

    But I have respected Biden for many yrs because he is one who says it how it is according to his world. No fear and a very good orator and thinker.

    I would like to have a simple discussion on.
    No arguements , no personal attacks.

    Of course its not nice to launch rockets into your neighbors yard.
    Of course suicide bombing is wrong
    Of course to go into a city and level it in retalliation is wrong, least I think so.

    I am all for peace by all but as he said this is a severe setback.

    Please remember we are sitting in the living room , the women are chatting and the kids are outside playing.

    Can we talk about the mid east peace process withou it going downhill fast ?

    I quote VP Joe Biden

    “"I condemn the decision by the government of Israel to advance planning for new housing units in East Jerusalem,” Biden said from Jerusalem in a statement released by his office. “The substance and timing of the announcement, particularly with the launching of proximity talks, is precisely the kind of step that undermines the trust we need right now and runs counter to the constructive discussions that I’ve had here in Israel.”

  2. #2
    Call me Liberace!
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    just sorta waiting to see how this turns out. not crazy about biden, but he IS "OUR" vp.
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  3. #3
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    Blanca BusaLess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    would like a nice clean discussion simply is all.
    The 'I' word is a fuse and can go boom quick but we should ALL be able to express ourselves without any of the 'kill em all' or just turn the place into a 'plate of glass' kinda comments.
    Its a fragile situation. I am curious how you, the rest of the country and world I guess feel about it.
    Being I live in Florida and Palm Beach County I can tell you he shoud double his security detail the next time he crosses the border cuz folks are a little miffed down here.

    Its hard for me to get decent discussion here because some are 'no matter what' supporters of Israel and you know I understand that.
    Some here see fault in there own govt and are more open to criticism or open thought on the subject.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Not to thread jack but can you get me one of those corner shots?
    ~Nick~

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    two questions:

    1. was biden speaking on his own(which he is known to do). Or was he expressing the opinions of his boss, Mr. Obama?

    2. was he following instructions, saying what Obama cannot?

    my biggest problem with this issue is...I really believe that if people could just accept Israel has a right to exhist, and stop launching rockets at them.....there could be peace.

    but we have seen over the last few decades that will not happen.

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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Afterhours your correct .
    I don't know if he was speaking on his own .

    He came right out of meeting with them and had a press conf.

    Biden has always been quick lipped.
    I think he must have had instructions on what to say because he has not backed down from it today ?

    I find it strange that yesterday it was breaking news in a yellow banner and today it's SssssH nothing happened

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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Nick....most likely yes as it's not a classified article.
    They are not available to public and only being marketed to LEOs as of now.

    Seems to be a concern on if it goes public it would jeopardize more LEOs.
    I tend to agree somewhat but still the current price of one is about 2500 so I don't think many would pay anyway

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Biden has a long history of sticking his foot in his mouth. He speaks before thinking which a lot of people do, lol. The glorious leader may or may not be in favor of what he said but if its hushed today I bet he didnt have permission to say what he did. Either that or Obama is letting him say it so it takes the wrath off him later.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    perhaps you can help me with this.....

    the disputed territories, are actually land that Israel won in the Six Days War?

    Egypt, Jordan and Syria....with support from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Morrocco and Algeria decided to start a war and got beaten down by Israel, and lost these territories.

    correct?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Quote Originally Posted by Blanca Busa View Post
    a very good orator and thinker.
    I was with you until this part. He has a history of saying things without thinking about the ramifications, which is likely what happened here. I doubt seriously that this was an official White House comment. It's likely that Chuck Gibbs has already or will very soon retract that comment.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    I watched that video, that's pretty wild.

    I kept thinking of that 80's movie with the robot in it and could not quit laughing. That would take a LOT of training as the aiming movements would not be natural. But, you WOULD be able to fire from a covered position...

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    He did appear on CNN this morning and again state same so I am leaning toward that Obama wants to say it but will let Joe do it.

    Afterhours we are talking about the 'occupied territories'.
    Places like the Gaza Strip where Palestinian refugees live.

    Areas won in the war from Syria was the Golan Heights, a mntn range between the 2.
    Prior to the war Syria held it and had their guns facing down on Israel, now its opposite.

    Areas won from Egypt were in the Suez region and have since been returned after yrs of UN occupation.

    This deals with whether or not Israel genuinely thinks there should be a separate state for the Palestinians.
    The US position is that the 2 people can live side by side together and a sep state should be created.
    Now almost every aspect of a Palestinians life is controlled by the Israelis.
    They and many countries in the world think a separate state with a sep govt is needed.

    Now the areas that the Palestinians would have gained are in some of these areas that Israel has just announced they are gonna build on. So it undermines Israels public agreement on 2 sep states.
    To Israels credit they have removed settlers and torn down settlements in accord with other agreements. You may remember the settlers holed up refusing to leave and Israeli soldiers forcibly removing them.
    They have held up to their end before. This time for some strange reason within moments of Biden leaving they announce the go ahead and planned construction ?
    So Biden is like 'what a waste of time this was' !

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Vonderbach I like Biden because he doesnt back down and means what he says.
    He is one of the biggest supporters of Israel and for him to say that is remarkable.
    In public before the press the VP of the USA using the word 'condemn' is strong, especially in the world of politics.
    I beleive he had permission, whether it was a quick call to the Chief or he already had it should things happen.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Quote Originally Posted by afterhours View Post
    two questions:

    1. was biden speaking on his own(which he is known to do). Or was he expressing the opinions of his boss, Mr. Obama?

    2. was he following instructions, saying what Obama cannot?

    my biggest problem with this issue is...I really believe that if people could just accept Israel has a right to exhist, and stop launching rockets at them.....there could be peace.

    but we have seen over the last few decades that will not happen.
    What do you base this "right to exist" on? They overthrew an otherwise peaceful Palestine in 1948. They have created generations of refugees with an apartheid like state. They routinely collect and conduct industrial espionage against us. Our support of them has contributed to the alienation of the Arab world against us. Why we support them is beyond me.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    What do you base this "right to exist" on? They overthrew an otherwise peaceful Palestine in 1948. They have created generations of refugees with an apartheid like state. They routinely collect and conduct industrial espionage against us. Our support of them has contributed to the alienation of the Arab world against us. Why we support them is beyond me.
    You make some interesting points, and remind me of one especially sore spot:

    The Liberty Incident in 1967. Out of respect for Blanca Busa's request to not twist this thread around, I'll leave that alone. I do however suggest that anyone not familiar with that "forgotten" atrocity, take a moment to look it up.

    I believe the problem dates back to before 1948. Historically, much of the blame for creating friction in the Arab world lies on the shoulders of Great Britain.
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Quote Originally Posted by roadthing View Post
    You make some interesting points, and remind me of one especially sore spot:

    The Liberty Incident in 1967. Out of respect for Blanca Busa's request to not twist this thread around, I'll leave that alone. I do however suggest that anyone not familiar with that "forgotten" atrocity, take a moment to look it up.

    I believe the problem dates back to before 1948. Historically, much of the blame for creating friction in the Arab world lies on the shoulders of Great Britain.
    Good point and you are correct about that.

    I missed Blanca asking not to jack the thread, i missed that, Sorry, I just have no love for Israel.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    What do you base this "right to exist" on? They overthrew an otherwise peaceful Palestine in 1948. They have created generations of refugees with an apartheid like state. They routinely collect and conduct industrial espionage against us. Our support of them has contributed to the alienation of the Arab world against us. Why we support them is beyond me.
    I don't want to get into a Palestine vs Israel debate here, because only feelings get hurt and I want to talk to my internet friends here about Hayabusa's etc. But Dino your comments sound like the classic progressive talking points we have been listing to for years.

    Regardless of our position with Israel, they have absolutely nothing to do with the Arab countries feelings about us. If you believe that, then you have been taking the Arab propaganda too seriously. They may say that, even Osama Bin ****head spews that, but really they dislike us for many reasons, and if we supported them instead of Israel, they would still hate us. If you want to win the hearts of Islam, convert or die.

    I will stop now, because my rant about the Palestinians would make you angry and likely others that think like you apparently do.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    What do you base this "right to exist" on? They overthrew an otherwise peaceful Palestine in 1948. They have created generations of refugees with an apartheid like state. They routinely collect and conduct industrial espionage against us. Our support of them has contributed to the alienation of the Arab world against us. Why we support them is beyond me.
    1. thier right to exhist, is based in my opinion on the fact that they do in fact exhist. if your position, or the palestinian, arab position is they have no "right to exhist" then peace is not an option.....and the two cannot co-exhist.

    if that is the case, why do we continue to try to broker peace? If the Palestinians/Arabs cannot stop the fighting, how can you blame Israel ?

    should Israel just let itself be destroyed?

    2. Our support of Israel is not the only reason the Arab world is against us....its just a convenient one. its the one that garners the most support.

    3. USS Liberty, was a spy ship....in a war zone, specifically were it was not supposed to be. I do not blame Israel for the attack, for two reasons.

    3a. it is my belief that the Liberty was sent by the CIA, on a spy mission and its location was purposely not given to the Israeli military.

    3b. the Liberty was providing Inteeligence to the Israelis, and to save face the attack was planned. This would give the appearance that the US was not supporting or aiding Israel, thus not bringing USSR into the conflict.

    either way the Liberty was put in harms way by US leadership....whether it was thru incompetance or part of a conspiracy i do not know.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Quote Originally Posted by GHILLIE View Post
    I don't want to get into a Palestine vs Israel debate here, because only feelings get hurt and I want to talk to my internet friends here about Hayabusa's etc. But Dino your comments sound like the classic progressive talking points we have been listing to for years.

    Regardless of our position with Israel, they have absolutely nothing to do with the Arab countries feelings about us. If you believe that, then you have been taking the Arab propaganda too seriously. They may say that, even Osama Bin ****head spews that, but really they dislike us for many reasons, and if we supported them instead of Israel, they would still hate us. If you want to win the hearts of Islam, convert or die.

    I will stop now, because my rant about the Palestinians would make you angry and likely others that think like you apparently do.
    Read some history, there were relatively few problems before 1948. Don't forget we liberated many Arab countries in North Africa during WWII. We also supported the overthrow of the USSR in Afganistan. Some of our major mistakes have been supporting Israel and the Shaw of Iran. Nothing has been gained in terms of our national interest by supporting Israel.

    The Palestinians had the rug pulled out from under them and have been treated like crap, Hamas and the PLO were formed as a result of the atrocious conditions suffered by Palestinians and never threatened America or Americans until reciently. Had it occured in this country i suspect you would see Americans acting in a very similiar way to protect our homes.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Oh ! So now he's my Vice President

    Quote Originally Posted by afterhours View Post
    1. thier right to exhist, is based in my opinion on the fact that they do in fact exhist. if your position, or the palestinian, arab position is they have no "right to exhist" then peace is not an option.....and the two cannot co-exhist.

    if that is the case, why do we continue to try to broker peace? If the Palestinians/Arabs cannot stop the fighting, how can you blame Israel ?

    should Israel just let itself be destroyed?

    2. Our support of Israel is not the only reason the Arab world is against us....its just a convenient one. its the one that garners the most support.

    3. USS Liberty, was a spy ship....in a war zone, specifically were it was not supposed to be. I do not blame Israel for the attack, for two reasons.

    3a. it is my belief that the Liberty was sent by the CIA, on a spy mission and its location was purposely not given to the Israeli military.

    3b. the Liberty was providing Inteeligence to the Israelis, and to save face the attack was planned. This would give the appearance that the US was not supporting or aiding Israel, thus not bringing USSR into the conflict.

    either way the Liberty was put in harms way by US leadership....whether it was thru incompetance or part of a conspiracy i do not know.
    We try to broker peace because whether or not they have a right to exist, as you said they do exist. Unfortunately their treatment of the Palestinians has made this very difficult.

    I agree it is only one reason; our support of the Shaw did not help the situation either.
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