How Does a Major in the Army Lose It?

[tdrcomm]

I think one of the problems is the way armed forces marketing has been done over the last 20 years. We've pushed the "Go in the Military, get an education, see the world" message that a very fundamental point has been lost: The ultimate job description in the armed forces is to wage war and kill the enemy, whoever that enemy is defined to be. It will not be pretty. It will not make you feel warm and fuzzy. You will have to do things that you would never want to do ever again in your life. And you will see things that will haunt you for the rest of your life. There is no sanitized, feel-good warfare. This isn't "Stripes".

I believe there are a lot of members of the Military that have been in for 10 years (or right after the Gulf War) or longer that never have fully considered what armed conflict is. They were expecting exotic ports-of-call and a free ride to the college of their choice and got a shooting war with all of the evil associated with it.

Then you become "conflicted". Conflicted has no place on the battlefield.
Count the costs of your actions and adjust your mindset accordingly.

It's like people that join the police force because they just want to become a detective like on TV. They never picture themselves on the street getting their hands dirty. Reality comes as a real shock to the system.

[Laylas_Mom]

Originally Posted by chrisjp

yea....i have always been a bit premature...(no not about that) .... immature..and glad to see heather you werent anywhere near...hope none of your peeps were involved!!

My people are all ok but he is still running around with multiple weapons. Gonna be a long day til the find him. It is right in the heart of downtown and less than a 1/4 from the interstate. He could be long gone....

[Postal]

I'm sorry, but the fact that he (Hasan) was screaming something in arabic ("Allah Akbar") about God being great, then wasting American military personnel just rings of religious fanaticism taken to the extreme of murder. Who was he serving by doing this?

I am sure that Barrak Hussain Obama will spin this another way though. Probably will say that Bush led this man to insanity by making him deal with all of our depressed military men and women coming back from battle.

Just my 2-cents.

[nitrousjunkie]

Originally Posted by Lurch

Please leave religion out of this. Just because he is Muslim does not make him Taliban. Not every Greman was a Nazi. Look at all of the Japanese we locked up during WWII in concentration camps.

Now if he was a christian would this have been a war of Christianity. I don't think so. If he was white and had a good American name Like John Quincy Adams would we be bashing him because of his name, skin color or religion? I don't think so.

Everyone breaks at some point. Some very easily, others about average and then you have people who can take a lot of pain and punishment before breaking.

Maybe before we judge him, we should learn all the facts and not just what the media is saying. We know very little about him and what happened. DO NOT JUDGE based on color, religion, sexual orientation, or the kind of music someone likes. If you do you are RACISTS and the PROBLEM.

Light me up and flame the heck out of me. I don't care. I fought for the freedom of speech so I am going to use it just like you do.

Quite possibly the single most level headed thing I've read on this thing since it happened.

[tegbusa]

Originally Posted by nitrousjunkie

Quite possibly the single most level headed thing I've read on this thing since it happened.

True

[Tufbusa]

I'm a bit suspicious that Hassan may have been looking for his 72 virgins?

[Takeuon]

Originally Posted by Lurch

Please leave religion out of this. Just because he is Muslim does not make him Taliban. Not every Greman was a Nazi. Look at all of the Japanese we locked up during WWII in concentration camps.


Everyone breaks at some point. Some very easily, others about average and then you have people who can take a lot of pain and punishment before breaking.

Maybe before we judge him, we should learn all the facts and not just what the media is saying. We know very little about him and what happened. DO NOT JUDGE based on color, religion, sexual orientation, or the kind of music someone likes. If you do you are RACISTS and the PROBLEM.

Light me up and flame the heck out of me. I don't care. I fought for the freedom of speech so I am going to use it just like you do.

Well here's my problem w/ that. He was wearing an all white outfit,(same as the suicide bombers wear in the Middle East), was shouting words in Arabic that are directly related to a religious belief. the fact that he is Muslim makes it a very important piece of the puzzle. From an investigators viewpoint... Should he be looked at immediately as a radical Muslim? YES! Because he took two weapons and went out to intentionally murder people. Does this automatically link him to the Taliban or a terrorist group? No. But it does bring to light that he may just have been a religious fanatic.
The difference between your statement that "everyone cracks" and may be of different religions doesn't hold water w/ me. Because if a regular, good Muslim had cracked, I believe they may just take their own life and go out alone.

As far as waiting for the facts and not listening to the media...well unless you have another resource for us to get information....the media is all we have. So how I'm going to collect facts from anyone other then them?

[wardie]

I can only say two things; this is a good example of why I carry a gun and two wished someone had put a bullet through his head before his took any innocent lives. Now you're going to have the shooters family "claim" he was abused and that the Army wasn't deligient in protecting his religious freedoms so it was okay to kill innocent people.

Here's what I hate....they are all stinkin' cowards and murderers and no one wants to call them that. Freedom fighters my ass. Hey I got news for America ...in Youngstown, Ohio we don't have any random shootings cuzz if you pull a gun chances are the guy (or gal) you pull it on is going to have a bigger one pointing back at you.

My prayers are with the families of our soldiers and the women who served our country both home and abroad. Just my opinion . Wardie

[thrasherfox]

There are reports that he was against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and that he has had heated conversations and arguments with other military members in regards to the two current war fronts and his strong belief against us being there.

They also have obtained information that he was visiting web sites in regards to suicide bombing and suicide attacks.



If I were to speculate I would imagine that adding his hertigage, his extrememe dislike and position about our conflicts in the middle east and preliminary information leading to the possability if his visiting the previously mentioned web sites of said topic, I would guess there is a possability that he decided to declare his own personal war against the US military.

I however doubt it was part of any kind of terrorist plot nor would I guess he had any contacts with such. I am thinking he acted soley alone.

If any good will come out of this it would be he is still alive and I am sure we will eventually learn from him as to why he did it. If we were just killed then all of us could speculate until we were out of breath but we would never know. At least with him still alive we might be able to find out why, if he did have any contacts with any extremists and hopefully be able to minimize threats of future attacks.


Not good though if we now have to worry about watching our backs on US bases against our fellow military and civilian work forces.

[Lurch]

Originally Posted by Takeuon

Well here's my problem w/ that. He was wearing an all white outfit,(same as the suicide bombers wear in the Middle East), was shouting words in Arabic that are directly related to a religious belief. the fact that he is Muslim makes it a very important piece of the puzzle. From an investigators viewpoint... Should he be looked at immediately as a radical Muslim? YES! Because he took two weapons and went out to intentionally murder people. Does this automatically link him to the Taliban or a terrorist group? No. But it does bring to light that he may just have been a religious fanatic.
The difference between your statement that "everyone cracks" and may be of different religions doesn't hold water w/ me. Because if a regular, good Muslim had cracked, I believe they may just take their own life and go out alone.

As far as waiting for the facts and not listening to the media...well unless you have another resource for us to get information....the media is all we have. So how I'm going to collect facts from anyone other then them?

He was wearing an all white outfit,(same as the suicide bombers wear in the Middle East), Where is this info from? I have not seen this information. I may have missed it. Would like to see it.

was shouting words in Arabic that are directly related to a religious belief. I am Mexican-American and I go on a shooting spree on a military installation and kill 13 and wound 30. While doing so I am Screaming AVE MARIA AVE MARIA. This is a religious massacre? I doubt it.

I am japanese and do the same while I scream in Japanese that Budda is good. Is it a religious massacre? I doubt it.

I am sure that many of our boys at Normandy were screaming religious phrases. They knew they were going to die. Same with Hasan.

Now I do not agree with what he did and think he should be strung up. But to persicute this POS because of his name, skin color and religion is wrong. Racism and hate is the problem with this country not the cure.
Now I am no left wing liberal by any means. I am former active duty Marine during the Reagan era. I am about as hardline as a person can get when it comes to not rolling over and giving this country away.

[BBB]

He was wearing the white garb that morning at a gas station. I had heard (possibly incorrectly) on some news blurb that he was dressed in regular military gear when the shooting happend.

[Takeuon]

Yeah I hear ya. And I understand what you're saying Lurch.

I think a lot will come out when the FBI has finished their forensics on his computer. It has been confirmed that he posted on a Muslim website(not saying it was a radical site) in which he was blasting US policy he himself said that Muslims in general should consider rising up and need to take a hard look at US soldiers as the enemy.

I think a lot more will come to light about this guy in the next few days.
Personally....I don't think Muslims should be allowed to serve in our military. Just my opinion.

[Lurch]

Originally Posted by Takeuon

Yeah I hear ya. And I understand what you're saying Lurch.

I think a lot will come out when the FBI has finished their forensics on his computer. It has been confirmed that he posted on a Muslim website(not saying it was a radical site) in which he was blasting US policy he himself said that Muslims in general should consider rising up and need to take a hard look at US soldiers as the enemy.

I think a lot more will come to light about this guy in the next few days.
Personally....I don't think Muslims should be allowed to serve in our military. Just my opinion.

I can understand that feeling and tend to agree with it at times. During WWII we locked up every and I mean EVERY japanese on US soil. even ones in the military and threw them in Concentration camps. Maybe we should do the same with the Muslims until this war is over?

I am also not saying that he was NOT a radical, but those words started flying before anyone knew anything but his name. That is judging based on Racist beliefs. Let the authorities do there job and release the facts then we can judge. That is what this country is based on. Just because he is Muslim and probably whacked in the head does not make him Guilty automaticly.

Besides you have to whacked in the head to be a Pshyc. If you weren't you could never relate to your patients.

And 1 more thing. IF, all of these allegations are true about his comments and beliefs then the Army is also very much at fault. I heard a story that he wanted out and tried numerous times to get out and the Army said no. He even offered to reimburse the government for his schooling and what not.
So if your going to blame this on Radical Muslim beliefs then blame the Army also for this.

[coreywiley]

+1.

Originally Posted by Lurch

Please leave religion out of this. Just because he is Muslim does not make him Taliban. Not every Greman was a Nazi. Look at all of the Japanese we locked up during WWII in concentration camps.

Now if he was a christian would this have been a war of Christianity. I don't think so. If he was white and had a good American name Like John Quincy Adams would we be bashing him because of his name, skin color or religion? I don't think so.

Everyone breaks at some point. Some very easily, others about average and then you have people who can take a lot of pain and punishment before breaking.

Maybe before we judge him, we should learn all the facts and not just what the media is saying. We know very little about him and what happened. DO NOT JUDGE based on color, religion, sexual orientation, or the kind of music someone likes. If you do you are RACISTS and the PROBLEM.

Light me up and flame the heck out of me. I don't care. I fought for the freedom of speech so I am going to use it just like you do.

[UncleSteve]

Originally Posted by Lurch

Please leave religion out of this. Just because he is Muslim does not make him Taliban. Not every Greman was a Nazi. Look at all of the Japanese we locked up during WWII in concentration camps.

Now if he was a christian would this have been a war of Christianity. I don't think so. If he was white and had a good American name Like John Quincy Adams would we be bashing him because of his name, skin color or religion? I don't think so.

Everyone breaks at some point. Some very easily, others about average and then you have people who can take a lot of pain and punishment before breaking.

Maybe before we judge him, we should learn all the facts and not just what the media is saying. We know very little about him and what happened. DO NOT JUDGE based on color, religion, sexual orientation, or the kind of music someone likes. If you do you are RACISTS and the PROBLEM.

Light me up and flame the heck out of me. I don't care. I fought for the freedom of speech so I am going to use it just like you do.

I think you will see that this one was a terrorist and religion was part of it. I would like to think he just wigged out. I am afraid this was NOT one of those cases.
The US military had been warned of this and it happened. We have allowed the terrorists to take root here. Hide and watch, it will get worse, time is on their side, we are too busy trying to not offend anyone.

There will be no easy solutions... Australia has the right idea.

[Takeuon]

Originally Posted by Lurch

I can understand that feeling and tend to agree with it at times. During WWII we locked up every and I mean EVERY japanese on US soil. even ones in the military and threw them in Concentration camps. Maybe we should do the same with the Muslims until this war is over?

I am also not saying that he was NOT a radical, but those words started flying before anyone knew anything but his name. That is judging based on Racist beliefs. Let the authorities do there job and release the facts then we can judge. That is what this country is based on. Just because he is Muslim and probably whacked in the head does not make him Guilty automaticly.

Besides you have to whacked in the head to be a Pshyc. If you weren't you could never relate to your patients.

Yeah...what is it they say about Shrinks.....for every shrink you know they have their own shrink on speed dial

[Lurch]

Originally Posted by UncleSteve

I think you will see that this one was a terrorist and religion was part of it. I would like to think he just wigged out. I am afraid this was NOT one of those cases.
The US military had been warned of this and it happened. We have allowed the terrorists to take root here. Hide and watch, it will get worse, time is on their side, we are too busy trying to not offend anyone.

There will be no easy solutions... Australia has the right idea.

Not saying it wasn't. All I say is DO NOT JUDGE before the facts are in.

[UncleSteve]

Originally Posted by Lurch

Not saying it wasn't. All I say is DO NOT JUDGE before the facts are in.

I am not judging, but I would like to see us stop importing them. They (terrorists) have taken over in some countries.

We should at least get a head count on how many are here illegally.

[Lurch]

Originally Posted by UncleSteve

I am not judging, but I would like to see us stop importing them. They (terrorists) have taken over in some countries.

We should at least get a head count on how many are here illegally.

I agree whole heartadly

[Takeuon]

Originally Posted by Lurch

And 1 more thing. IF, all of these allegations are true about his comments and beliefs then the Army is also very much at fault. I heard a story that he wanted out and tried numerous times to get out and the Army said no. He even offered to reimburse the government for his schooling and what not.
So if your going to blame this on Radical Muslim beliefs then blame the Army also for this.

Ok I agree. Especially as I sit here and watch the news and they are saying the military had their eye on Hasan now for over six months. He was brought to their attention after they found out he wrote those comments online I mentioned earlier.
So if there were steps in place and the Army had acted earlier....chances are this whole thing could have been prevented!