2000 Hayabusa Only Running On 3 & 4 Cylinders.
- Thread starter David Offor
- Start date
This has got me thinking, it has to be the ECU, or a damaged wire harness.
The firing order is 1 and 4 , and 2 and 3, so your bike is missing the sequence.
You have looked at every possible aspect that could be the problem
You have fuel, compression, and spark.
If you test for spark, you have it on all 4 coils?
The firing order is 1 and 4 , and 2 and 3, so your bike is missing the sequence.
You have looked at every possible aspect that could be the problem
You have fuel, compression, and spark.
If you test for spark, you have it on all 4 coils?
David Offor
Registered
Hi dscahill, i keep forgeting this is an american site lol, its ok, thanks for the offer though
.looks like i have some progress, ill write it in a new post underneath.
David Offor
Registered
Hello GIXERHP.
I was also sure about the ecu but i couldnt understand how it could be a wiring problem because all things needed to have a fully running engine were there, anyway i have progress, ill write it in a new message, thankyou for your input, ive had much help on what is a real puzzler tbh.
David Offor
Registered
Hello all.
Firstly, thanks to everyone, for all the suggestions regarding my bike woes.
I collected a 2nd hand loom, ECU, complete with coils and relays for £150 yesterday.
Tried the ecu, still no good
Tried the coils, ecu, no good
Tried a relay near the starter solinoid (4 pin), no good
Swapped the small injector plugs harness, SUCCESS the bike fired up and ran fine, not 100% but on all cylinders and idled relatively smoothly and considering it had been running on only 2 cylinders for the last 4 months approx, i was more than happy.
Now, this is where it gets weird because i decided to backtrack and issolate what the problem was and what would set it back to running on 3&4 again, i fitted all my original parts (ecu, coils, injector harness, relay) and it ran fine.
I then decided to fit a set of plugs that id been alternating between but not tried during the swap outs and NOTHING, bike wouldnt even run, it tried to fire but nothing more than that.
Both sets of plugs id been using, id bought new but had been fouled by the bad running of the engine, i know how sensitive to plugs busas are but i couldnt believe that they could cause this.
The bike is lacking power and i think the other plugs are breaking down, ive ordered another set but its rnning wich is the main thing.
Im wondering if the bad running of the engine couldve given a bad signal back to the ecu, wich had thrown out the settings in my ecu, by fitting items that were ok, it re-synced something but im just guessing tbh the bike had been getting progressively worse, even swapping between the 2 sets of plugs, so im a little baffled and sorry that i cant report a knackered ecu or loom but ive learnt a hell ov a lot, wich is invaluable and thanks to Sixpack for the link for converting to a gen 2 ecu.
Dave.
Bad plugs in the photo.
Firstly, thanks to everyone, for all the suggestions regarding my bike woes.
I collected a 2nd hand loom, ECU, complete with coils and relays for £150 yesterday.
Tried the ecu, still no good
Tried the coils, ecu, no good
Tried a relay near the starter solinoid (4 pin), no good
Swapped the small injector plugs harness, SUCCESS the bike fired up and ran fine, not 100% but on all cylinders and idled relatively smoothly and considering it had been running on only 2 cylinders for the last 4 months approx, i was more than happy.
Now, this is where it gets weird because i decided to backtrack and issolate what the problem was and what would set it back to running on 3&4 again, i fitted all my original parts (ecu, coils, injector harness, relay) and it ran fine.
I then decided to fit a set of plugs that id been alternating between but not tried during the swap outs and NOTHING, bike wouldnt even run, it tried to fire but nothing more than that.
Both sets of plugs id been using, id bought new but had been fouled by the bad running of the engine, i know how sensitive to plugs busas are but i couldnt believe that they could cause this.
The bike is lacking power and i think the other plugs are breaking down, ive ordered another set but its rnning wich is the main thing.
Im wondering if the bad running of the engine couldve given a bad signal back to the ecu, wich had thrown out the settings in my ecu, by fitting items that were ok, it re-synced something but im just guessing tbh the bike had been getting progressively worse, even swapping between the 2 sets of plugs, so im a little baffled and sorry that i cant report a knackered ecu or loom but ive learnt a hell ov a lot, wich is invaluable and thanks to Sixpack for the link for converting to a gen 2 ecu
.Dave.
Bad plugs in the photo.
David Offor
Registered
Famous last words about the bike.
I decided to re fit the TRE that I'd fitted and hey presto, running back to 3&4 only again.
After reading up on the 2000 model, it seems I made a mistake in fitting it because that year is already derestricted (doh!!!).
Could fitting a TRE on a deristricted bike cause it to over fuel? I know that the TRE tricks the bike to thinking its in another gear, to rev higher.
If the TRE is faulty, then maybe this could also cause the bike to over fuel, thus fouling the plugs.
Hopefully the new plugs and no TRE will cure my issues.
I decided to re fit the TRE that I'd fitted and hey presto, running back to 3&4 only again.
After reading up on the 2000 model, it seems I made a mistake in fitting it because that year is already derestricted (doh!!!).
Could fitting a TRE on a deristricted bike cause it to over fuel? I know that the TRE tricks the bike to thinking its in another gear, to rev higher.
If the TRE is faulty, then maybe this could also cause the bike to over fuel, thus fouling the plugs.
Hopefully the new plugs and no TRE will cure my issues.
TRE's are notorious for causing gremlins or dieing all together.
I'm sorry I never noticed that you said you had one.
And no credit to me for posting a link you needed, glad to help in some way.
I'm sorry I never noticed that you said you had one.
And no credit to me for posting a link you needed, glad to help in some way.
David Offor
Registered
Id forgotten about the tre until I saw it in my spares box, plugged it in and the bike went back to twin mode, it could've triggered my bad running problems after fitting it and confusing the bike.
Hopefully the new plugs and no TRE will fix it, that's the problem, when you've done so much, it's easy to get confused by the order of the work and when things first started going wrong.
I've downloaded the workshop manual from your link and got the info about the ecu swap, so useful
I'll update when I've changed the plugs.
Dave.
Hopefully the new plugs and no TRE will fix it, that's the problem, when you've done so much, it's easy to get confused by the order of the work and when things first started going wrong.
I've downloaded the workshop manual from your link and got the info about the ecu swap, so useful
I'll update when I've changed the plugs.
Dave.
On a 99 and 2000 a TRE will cause problems, i missed that in the earlier post, or you just mentioned it! The 99 and 00 are unrestricted.
As for the Plugs, just replace them, and you should be running fine.
What year ECU and harness are you using now?
As for the Plugs, just replace them, and you should be running fine.
What year ECU and harness are you using now?
David Offor
Registered
Hi GIXERHP.
The ecu is my original (see photo), that was on the bike when I bought it, it checks out for the year of my bike and it's a one owner from new bike, so I can only presume it's original the replacement I got, has all the exact same numbers on it and the bike seemed to run the same with either ecu connected.
My fault forgetting to mention the TRE, with new knowelege about the bike, I see how it could cause problems.
I'm still waiting on the plugs, so no new news yet.
The ecu is my original (see photo), that was on the bike when I bought it, it checks out for the year of my bike and it's a one owner from new bike, so I can only presume it's original the replacement I got, has all the exact same numbers on it and the bike seemed to run the same with either ecu connected.
My fault forgetting to mention the TRE, with new knowelege about the bike, I see how it could cause problems.
I'm still waiting on the plugs, so no new news yet.
David Offor
Registered
Plugs arrived today runs better but still not right, i feel there is no change.
After fitting rings and putting the bike back together, i remeber having the timing wrong and cranking, there was a noise, i timed up the engine correctly and ran it, it was such a long time ago that i dont remember if the bike was bad from this point on or from before.
The symptoms to me could suggest bent valves:-
1. Fouling plugs
2. Rough and inconsistent running
3. Flames back through throttle boddies
4. Lacking power
5. Lower than book compressions 160psi even accross all 4 cylinders (book says 175 upwards)
6. Hight co reading
7. Relectant to pick up revs from tickover, engine note sounds flat.
As all the engine timing is correct, all nsensors checked\tested or swapped with others and no change with a replacement ecu, i think its now time to think about valves.
I hope that the link below will show the problem i have with the bike running.
Dave.
After fitting rings and putting the bike back together, i remeber having the timing wrong and cranking, there was a noise, i timed up the engine correctly and ran it, it was such a long time ago that i dont remember if the bike was bad from this point on or from before.
The symptoms to me could suggest bent valves:-
1. Fouling plugs
2. Rough and inconsistent running
3. Flames back through throttle boddies
4. Lacking power
5. Lower than book compressions 160psi even accross all 4 cylinders (book says 175 upwards)
6. Hight co reading
7. Relectant to pick up revs from tickover, engine note sounds flat.
As all the engine timing is correct, all nsensors checked\tested or swapped with others and no change with a replacement ecu, i think its now time to think about valves.
I hope that the link below will show the problem i have with the bike running.
Dave.
David Offor
Registered
Hi mjl3truck
Ive just finished checking my inlet valve seats, i dont have a leak down tester, so decided to, in turn, position the cylinders at TDC and pour petrol down each throttle body and check for any loss over both valves, NO LOSS OF FUEL, i was actually hoping for the fuel to run away because it wouldve explained my problem, so the next thing to do is remove the exhaust system, pressurize the cylinders and see if its an exhaust valve issue (tomorrow as its nearly 10pm in the uk now).
Could a faulty CRANKSHAFT SENSOR send a bad\inacurate signal to the ECU?? telling it to spark and inject fuel at the wrong time??
Im really racking my brain and keep coming up empty, booking it into a shop is the absolute last resort, i dont handle defeat well lol.
I decided to record my compression tests on each cylinder, with the throttle bodies still removed and good charge in the battery.
Ive just finished checking my inlet valve seats, i dont have a leak down tester, so decided to, in turn, position the cylinders at TDC and pour petrol down each throttle body and check for any loss over both valves, NO LOSS OF FUEL, i was actually hoping for the fuel to run away because it wouldve explained my problem, so the next thing to do is remove the exhaust system, pressurize the cylinders and see if its an exhaust valve issue (tomorrow as its nearly 10pm in the uk now).
Could a faulty CRANKSHAFT SENSOR send a bad\inacurate signal to the ECU?? telling it to spark and inject fuel at the wrong time??
Im really racking my brain and keep coming up empty, booking it into a shop is the absolute last resort, i dont handle defeat well lol.
I decided to record my compression tests on each cylinder, with the throttle bodies still removed and good charge in the battery.
Last edited:
Samaki
Registered
If you have just fitted new rings I would not worry about those compression readings. They will come up as the rings seat to the cylinder walls with use. From what you are just describing above it seems like cam timing is off one tooth. I know you have checked it but sometimes a worn timing chain can cause the marks to not line up exactly . As a result you could be one off.
David Offor
Registered
I'm sure I did a compression test after building the bike back up and they were over 175, and on checking the exhaust valves, most were too tight, if it was bent valves I'd expect too big clearances.
The bike has just hit 40,000 miles, I guess if it's had a hard life the chain could've streached, I can measure the length of travel on the hydraulic tensioner but I don't have a benchmark travel length to compare too, I'd presume that a chain streached half a tooth in length would snap but I have no experience with timing chain wear, I'll look into it, thank you for the suggestion, the symptoms do point to mechanical timing.
The bike has just hit 40,000 miles, I guess if it's had a hard life the chain could've streached, I can measure the length of travel on the hydraulic tensioner but I don't have a benchmark travel length to compare too, I'd presume that a chain streached half a tooth in length would snap but I have no experience with timing chain wear, I'll look into it, thank you for the suggestion, the symptoms do point to mechanical timing.
Don't know what you have got going on but I did the gas down the intake port thing to check for leaky intake valves.
The 2 suspect cylinders held the fuel fine but when tested showed 40% and 20% leakage through the valves.
Compression was weak on those 2 cylinders but only about 5% less than the other ones.
The 2 suspect cylinders held the fuel fine but when tested showed 40% and 20% leakage through the valves.
Compression was weak on those 2 cylinders but only about 5% less than the other ones.
David Offor
Registered
Hi mjl3truck, hmmmm shame about that test not being gaurenteed but ill take it as an elimination of bent valves, no visable fluid loss and valve cleaences all checked out ok, all my compressions are very similar, so to bend some valves and not others should result in consistent noticible compression differences, samaki has suggested a possible timing chain issue, which ties in with my general symptoms, so im going to investigate this, thankyou for your input about the leaking valves, another thing ive learned .
https://www.diymotofix.com/blog/cam-chain-wear-and-replacement-tips1
I found this page very useful and considering when i did the first oil change, it came out like black thick tar, id say that the previous owner (one owner from new) was a bit of an idiot, so it stands to reason that ill have unusual wear in various parts of the enging and seeing as this is a vital component in the timing up of the engine, i think ill change it regardless, think ni can do it in position without removing the head.
.https://www.diymotofix.com/blog/cam-chain-wear-and-replacement-tips1
I found this page very useful and considering when i did the first oil change, it came out like black thick tar, id say that the previous owner (one owner from new) was a bit of an idiot, so it stands to reason that ill have unusual wear in various parts of the enging and seeing as this is a vital component in the timing up of the engine, i think ill change it regardless, think ni can do it in position without removing the head.
David Offor
Registered
Well, i wipped the camchain out of the bike, in possition, (took about 25 minutes).
Ive measured between the chain pins on the bike but because i have not been able to find any information about wear/length or serviceable tolerances online (there is nothing in my haynes manual or the workshop manual i downloaded from the internet, better than haynes), so, i wondered if anyone has any information or technical specification about what i should expect from a worn chain?
I noticed that after setting up the timing and then rotating the engine by hand 1 revolution the timing marks no longer line up with where they were before i rotated the engine, which to me would suggest 'chain stretch'.
Ive attached photos of the only test i feel i can make on my chain because i have no information on a new one, the only thing i know is, that the stock chain is 136 pins long.
Dave.
Ive measured between the chain pins on the bike but because i have not been able to find any information about wear/length or serviceable tolerances online (there is nothing in my haynes manual or the workshop manual i downloaded from the internet, better than haynes), so, i wondered if anyone has any information or technical specification about what i should expect from a worn chain?
I noticed that after setting up the timing and then rotating the engine by hand 1 revolution the timing marks no longer line up with where they were before i rotated the engine, which to me would suggest 'chain stretch'.
Ive attached photos of the only test i feel i can make on my chain because i have no information on a new one, the only thing i know is, that the stock chain is 136 pins long.
Dave.
You have to set it back one pin when you install it, and it will rotate into the correct position after a full rotation of the engine.
That's not chain stretch, that's normal.
If your Busa isn't still ticking Suzuki loud after it builds oil pressure and warms up, then the chain is fine. The timing chain is basically a replace with engine rebuild part, as it doesn't make sense not to. Otherwise, they are usually allright.
I think you found your problem. Re-time the engine to where the pins line up After a full rotation of the engine.
Assuming the valves are ok, I bet it starts and runs good.
That's not chain stretch, that's normal.
If your Busa isn't still ticking Suzuki loud after it builds oil pressure and warms up, then the chain is fine. The timing chain is basically a replace with engine rebuild part, as it doesn't make sense not to. Otherwise, they are usually allright.
I think you found your problem. Re-time the engine to where the pins line up After a full rotation of the engine.
Assuming the valves are ok, I bet it starts and runs good.
Last edited:
David Offor
Registered
Hi sixpack.
Thanks for the heads up about my chain, im about to refit it now, im a little confused about the book and how it tells you to time up the engine.
Later on today ill print off some timing diagrams and post the different points at where my arrows on the cams are pointing before and after rotating the engine.
I just need to get my head around what is happening when the chain is on and the engine is rotated and keeping the 15 pin gap.
Update to follow, thanks again.
Thanks for the heads up about my chain, im about to refit it now, im a little confused about the book and how it tells you to time up the engine.
Later on today ill print off some timing diagrams and post the different points at where my arrows on the cams are pointing before and after rotating the engine.
I just need to get my head around what is happening when the chain is on and the engine is rotated and keeping the 15 pin gap.
Update to follow, thanks again
.Similar threads
