brakes on busa

(JuiceSC @ Jun. 09 2007,15:00) You can't compare a motard vs the busa. No brake pad in the world will make up for the difference in weight of the two. To be honest, after my first ride I brake cleaned the rotors. I think I should have done that before I even rode the bike. There appeared to be some type of greasy substance on the brake rotors, like corrosion protective stuff. Oh thats right, I didn't have to pay 'dealer prep'.
I'm not saying it should be as good as a motard, but there is a looonnnggg way in between the 2. In other words there is room for improvement...
 
(IScream @ Jun. 09 2007,15:08)  I really believe now that had I just set the preload properly before that, to reduce the dive under hard braking I could have gotten it stopped that morning.
I would disagree. More dive will promote better braking. It allows the energy to transfer from horizontal to vertical putting more weight on the front tire. If it didn't dive the energy travels strictly horizontal and there is better chance for lock up. Thats why the schools will tell you to gradually apply pressure and once the suspension sets down you can give it a handfull of brake.
In a panic the front never has a chance to dive if you imediately grab a handfull. Its easier to lock the front if you just stab the brake rather than gradually applying it and actually even exceeding the presure you did with just a stab.
 
(Samurai-Jim @ Jun. 09 2007,15:34)
(IScream @ Jun. 09 2007,15:08)  I really believe now that had I just set the preload properly before that, to reduce the dive under hard braking I could have gotten it stopped that morning.
I would disagree. More dive will promote better braking. It allows the energy to transfer from horizontal to vertical putting more weight on the front tire. If it didn't dive the energy travels strictly horizontal and there is better chance for lock up. Thats why the schools will tell you to gradually apply pressure and once the suspension sets down you can give it a handfull of brake.
In a panic the front never has a chance to dive if you imediately grab a handfull. Its easier to lock the front if you just stab the brake rather than gradually applying it and actually even exceeding the presure you did with just a stab.
Have you ever panic braked a busa? If not, try it and tell me again it doesn't dive hard. I've owned 12 different motorcycles and been riding all my life. I've had to stop quickly many times. The busa front locks much too easily in my opinion. There are descriptions around of the busa having so much dive that it will actually bottom out the fork and increase the likelyhood of a lock.

I had 3600 miles of fairly hard riding on this bike when the wreck happened. I had even practiced panic stops from low speeds over at the school parking lot where they teach the MSF.

As I mentioned above, after locking the brake the first time and having the bike start to slide out from under me, I let up on the pressure to catch it, then applied the brake again to the point where it dove and locked. I then had to let up and catch it again. I got it down from 60 to 20 during the whole process.

I do think this little stretch of road is low on traction as my truck will barely take off from a light in there when it rains. It wasn't raining this day though.

None of this is to say that the wreck wasn't my fault in the end though. Had I been paying less attention to the guy in the car to my right and more to traffic ahead I wouldn't have ended up in the panic situation.

I'm just saying that a little extra stopping power at the tire to road interface probably would have been enough to make it a close call rather than a wreck.

-Chris
 
I went with Magura (PVM style) Billet Radials,S.S. Hel lines and SBS pads. No problems here!
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Stock brakes have plenty of power, they will lock up the front if you squeeze the lever hard enough.

Most people however perfer to use less force on the lever to get the same results. This allows you to more precise with the brakes and steering.

If you use both brakes properly(very few do), front end dive won't make any difference in stopping distance. But front end dive does decrease the chances of locking up the front by transferring more weight to the front, however this increases the chances of locking up the rear since less weight is on the rear. Too much front end dive is bad for twisty guys because you don't want that much chasis movement mid-corner.
 
(brendanp @ Jun. 09 2007,13:57) I went with Magura (PVM style) Billet Radials,S.S. Hel lines and SBS pads. No problems here!

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What bar set up is that? Looks sort of like the cycle cat stuff but the bars are not? Looks hot!
 
(Samurai-Jim @ Jun. 09 2007,14:flamethrowing:) I've been wanting better brakes for a long time. Pads and steel lines are an improvement but try riding a motard and then tell me the busa brakes are good.
PM me for my addy. You can ship the motard anytime
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(BIGSMOOTHH @ Jun. 09 2007,12:14) I can vouch for the stainless steel brake lines and the EBC HH pads. However....I wouldnt do the EBC on the front again. Ill go with stock next time. Why you may ask? Well, heres why. The other day I had the occasion to do an emergency test of my brakes. The lady in front of me dynamited her brakes to turn at just the time I was checking my left mirror and shoulder for a lane change. I locked them up. Thats right. I said them. Front and rear. I didnt like it. At all. It got real squirrelly for a second there. I think I preferred the softer OEM pads. I did get the tail end up once with those though. And are they supposed to "whine" like they do? My EBC pads are really noisy. Its actually kind of annoying.
What front tire you running? I almost broke a toe one time saving a front end slide and have run nothing but sticky front tires ever since.
 
I took it that he was speaking of emergency braking more than hitting the corner perfect. I don't have a problem with the Busa brakes, but then again I haven't been on one that's tricked out.
 
(Charlesbusa @ Jun. 09 2007,14:13) Stock brakes have plenty of power, they will lock up the front if you squeeze the lever hard enough.

Most people however perfer to use less force on the lever to get the same results.  This allows you to more precise with the brakes and steering.  

If you use both brakes properly(very few do), front end dive won't make any difference in stopping distance.  But front end dive does decrease the chances of locking up the front by transferring more weight to the front, however this increases the chances of locking up the rear since less weight is on the rear.  Too much front end dive is bad for twisty guys because you don't want that much chasis movement mid-corner.
+1 Just learn to use your brakes and set them for your feel and finger distance. That's what those numbers are for on the dial. Other than steel brake lines, I haven't done anything else. And the Brakes work just find for me. Of course they'll never match my Ducati, but then, it's probably 100 lbs lighter and that makes a BIG difference  
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What bar set up is that? Looks sort of like the cycle cat stuff but the bars are not? Looks hot!
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Thanks...
The clip on's are indeed Cycle Cat. The bars I fabricated myself. The cups are Rizoma and I made the fitting to mount the cups directly into the M/C.

The Tree is Agras Racing.
 
(Charlesbusa @ Jun. 09 2007,16:13) Stock brakes have plenty of power, they will lock up the front if you squeeze the lever hard enough.

Most people however perfer to use less force on the lever to get the same results.  This allows you to more precise with the brakes and steering.  

If you use both brakes properly(very few do), front end dive won't make any difference in stopping distance.  But front end dive does decrease the chances of locking up the front by transferring more weight to the front, however this increases the chances of locking up the rear since less weight is on the rear.  Too much front end dive is bad for twisty guys because you don't want that much chasis movement mid-corner.
FYI, I understand what weight transfer is about and that some front suspension travel is good when stopping. Bottoming out the forks is not good for stopping though, don't you think?. I'm just suggesting that everyone should properly setup their suspension to match their weight. It's pretty well known the Hayabusa suspension is far from properly setup when rolled off the showroom floor. It also seems to be pretty well known that it's hard to get it setup right with the stock front spring if you weigh more than 150 pounds.

I'm really not looking to argue with anyone. I can't imagine how someone would argue that correctly setting up your suspension won't improve every part of the bikes performance anyway.

-Chris
 
(IScream @ Jun. 09 2007,15:56)
(Charlesbusa @ Jun. 09 2007,16:13) Stock brakes have plenty of power, they will lock up the front if you squeeze the lever hard enough.

Most people however perfer to use less force on the lever to get the same results.  This allows you to more precise with the brakes and steering.  

If you use both brakes properly(very few do), front end dive won't make any difference in stopping distance.  But front end dive does decrease the chances of locking up the front by transferring more weight to the front, however this increases the chances of locking up the rear since less weight is on the rear.  Too much front end dive is bad for twisty guys because you don't want that much chasis movement mid-corner.
FYI, I understand what weight transfer is about and that some front suspension travel is good when stopping.  Bottoming out the forks is not good for stopping though, don't you think?.  I'm just suggesting that everyone should properly setup their suspension to match their weight.  It's pretty well known the Hayabusa suspension is far from properly setup when rolled off the showroom floor.  It also seems to be pretty well known that it's hard to get it setup right with the stock front spring if you weigh more than 150 pounds.

I'm really not looking to argue with anyone.  I can't imagine how someone would argue that correctly setting up your suspension won't improve every part of the bikes performance anyway.

-Chris
Of course bottoming out your suspension will hurt your stopping distance and may even put you on the ground.  I wasn't trying to say otherwise, I was only referring to front end dive  
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To be completely honest, there are a few variables in the equation for my own example that I did not let onto. For example, I have the suspension at its stiffest setting. Also, I just had new fork seals put on and had them filled with 10wt oil instead of the factory 7? wt. She does ride a bit different now so maybe I just need to get a bit used to it.
 
(IScream @ Jun. 09 2007,15:55)
(Samurai-Jim @ Jun. 09 2007,15:34)
(IScream @ Jun. 09 2007,15:08)  I really believe now that had I just set the preload properly before that, to reduce the dive under hard braking I could have gotten it stopped that morning.
I would disagree. More dive will promote better braking. It allows the energy to transfer from horizontal to vertical putting more weight on the front tire. If it didn't dive the energy travels strictly horizontal and there is better chance for lock up. Thats why the schools will tell you to gradually apply pressure and once the suspension sets down you can give it a handfull of brake.
In a panic the front never has a chance to dive if you imediately grab a handfull. Its easier to lock the front if you just stab the brake rather than gradually applying it and actually even exceeding the presure you did with just a stab.
Have you ever panic braked a busa?  If not, try it and tell me again it doesn't dive hard.  I've owned 12 different motorcycles and been riding all my life.  I've had to stop quickly many times.  The busa front locks much too easily in my opinion.  There are descriptions around of the busa having so much dive that it will actually bottom out the fork and increase the likelyhood of a lock.

I had 3600 miles of fairly hard riding on this bike when the wreck happened.  I had even practiced panic stops from low speeds over at the school parking lot where they teach the MSF.

As I mentioned above, after locking the brake the first time and having the bike start to slide out from under me, I let up on the pressure to catch it, then applied the brake again to the point where it dove and locked.  I then had to let up and catch it again.  I got it down from 60 to 20 during the whole process.

I do think this little stretch of road is low on traction as my truck will barely take off from a light in there when it rains.  It wasn't raining this day though.

None of this is to say that the wreck wasn't my fault in the end though.  Had I been paying less attention to the guy in the car to my right and more to traffic ahead I wouldn't have ended up in the panic situation.

I'm just saying that a little extra stopping power at the tire to road interface probably would have been enough to make it a close call rather than a wreck.

-Chris
I've never bottomed my suspension on braking unless there were bumps in the road at the same time as the hard braking.
If were truely talking about panic stops, which I don't have anyway, your wheel is locking before you have enough weight transfer. Thats regardless if the suspension is set right or not. Panic stops i.e. grabbing a handfull of brake without a progreesive squeeze. Not just a hard braking situation. Now if your truely panic stopping that means your panicing. I can't tell you how to overcome that but I can tell you I haven't paniced on a motorcycle in a long long time and I don't seem to end up with braking problems. I just want more power...)I only disagree with your statement of saying you don't want the nose to dive under braking, because thats exactly what you do when your loading the front under hard braking. If the front could dive far enough it would throw you over the handlebars as the wheel was rolling right underneath you. If you want to set up a bike your way thats your right. I just wouldn't set it stiff myself.
 
I went with steel braided lines better pads and rotors,  i stop great now and im on 1 front rotor.  no really, i do stop!

But if i were you ide stay away from chrome galfers! I have them and what a pain in the A$$ they are! The company and rotors!

sorry galfer reps. but they put me thru hell!

Thanks for the offer to help "GMBusa"
 
(bigoltool @ Jun. 09 2007,14:17)
(BIGSMOOTHH @ Jun. 09 2007,12:14) I can vouch for the stainless steel brake lines and the EBC HH pads.  However....I wouldnt do the EBC on the front again.  Ill go with stock next time.  Why you may ask?  Well, heres why.  The other day I had the occasion to do an emergency test of my brakes.  The lady in front of me dynamited her brakes to turn at just the time I was checking my left mirror and shoulder for a lane change.  I locked them up.  Thats right.  I said them.  Front and rear.  I didnt like it.   At all.  It got real squirrelly for a second there.  I think I preferred the softer OEM pads.  I did get the tail end up once with those though.  And are they supposed to "whine" like they do?  My EBC pads are really noisy.  Its actually kind of annoying.
What front tire you running? I almost broke a toe one time saving a front end slide and have run nothing but sticky front tires ever since.
Pilot Powers
 
Personally, I bought a set of Galfter Steel Braded lines and clutch cables.  EBC HH pads as well.

With no other change, I can tell a HUGE difference.  It's a low cost mod overall, and will increase the braking power of the Busa tremendously.  

I don't care that others say "My '2099 GSX-R 15million cc', can one finger brake so hard I can flip over and land on the front wheel, while serving me a cheeseburger and wiping my ass with it's built in shitter and still allow me to do a Jesus stand with no helmet at the same time."  Yipee.

The reality is that compared to the stock brakes, the steel lines and new pads are infinately better, have more grab, and I am really glad that I put them on.  Busa to Busa there is a difinitive improvement.
 
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