Do you always use both brakes?

[TruWrecks]

Originally Posted by k03gsxr750

The poll needs an option of "I frequently use both brakes" IMHO. But on a motorcycle it simply is not necessary for every stopping situation. For the situation dictates the amount and type of braking I will be using. The reality is motorcycles stop with 70% or more using the front brake even with both are applied. If you think of the physics of what is happening to the motorcycle when you get into the brakes it makes more sense, IE you hit the brake weight its transferred to the front wheel. More weight = more friction = more stopping. Also most motorcycles have much more power front brakes then rear. Its good when you are starting out to be familiar with how braking will "feel" when using both or either brake.

Personally about 1-2 times a year I find a lonely parking lot and practice. I try and imagine all the scenarios that can happen to pick a spot in the parking lot like a cone and try things out. I do a few swerve then brake, Then brake swerve, brake. Then all out braking etc, etc. The point is to mix things up and make a game out of it. You will eventually come to a braking style that just happens for you.

Most new rider books assume you are only braking in a straight line, with the bike completely upright.

[TruWrecks]

Originally Posted by Laylas_Mom

I did what the MSF taught me until I had to stop suddenly and almost lost it with my back tire fishtailing on me. My friends who have been riding told me what I did wrong. Basically I was told 80% Front 20% Back... I dunno what everyone else is tellin ya.

If your back tire locks up, and you are braking in a straight line, leave it locked up. It's still helping slow you down even though it's swinging side to side. The worst thing you can do is let up on the rear brake while it's sliding side to side. If the tire gets traction back when your bike is sideways you may be going for a flight that you don't want to take. High-sides hurt, a lot!

[BusaPebbles]

Originally Posted by Laylas_Mom

ah...yeah. It was more of a "oh $h!t" and my car braking brain took over. I slammed both brakes. My friends were very impressed I didnt go down but I have off road experience so I think that helped. I took my lesson home from that day...

Quick stopping was the hardest skill for me to learn, and it is still not something that is automatic for me. I really need to think about what I am doing. The last time I fishtailed had nothing to do with the brakes, I was coming off of an exit too fast and down shifted twice. I completel lost the back end and take no credit for the recovery. God had an angel intervene on that one, because I honestly have no idea how I maneuvered out of that one.

[BusaPebbles]

I always use both brakes. I only lightly use the front, but always use both.

[Tufbusa]

I'll step in here quickly for my two cents worth for whatever it's worth.

When I take students out on the track, I always press the thought of "Stay off the rear brake" if you want to take your bike home with the plastics still in tack. I usually tell them if I see their brake foot on the pedal, they don't have to be using it, just in place where they can push the pedal in a SR (Survival Reaction) I'll break their foot! But it still doesn't sink in with everyone. They have to be reminded throughout the day.

I've seen some of the nastiest crashes as a result of rear brake use. The reason people get so attached to the rear brake is the front brake scares them. It just does not feel stable or safe to stand on the front brake. However, use of the rear brake makes the bike behave in a much more managable way. Then it becomes a love affair with the rear brake. Remember, it's the things you don't fear that will bite you.

A sport bike on dry pavement with good sticky rubber gives 100% braking on the front. The rear is only used to help steer the bike in the corners. If you have no experience at steering the bike with the rear brake, you have no reason to use it on clean dry pavement.

Some have said emergency stopping is the place for using both brakes. Actually, that is the very worst time to use the rear brake. If you are standing on the front brake, the rear is so light just the slightest touch of the rear brake will lock the tire and if you avoid a highside in that situation you should buy a lottery ticket at the very first convenience store you come across.

If you are on both brakes in a maximum stopping situation (Emergency stop) and the rear does not lock, you are not using the front brake effectively.

Braking is an learned skill no different than cornering. If you don't practice, you never become efficient.

Just my two cents worth which means absolutely nothing to anyone but me but I'm old and gray and still alive !

[SLO MO]

It's situational for me, I use only rear and clutch control for slow movements and stopping. Front and light rear gradually increasing as the weight transfers from the front forks to keep from locking the rear which in itself is not that bad in a straight line. Main thing is keep proper distance, speed and pay attention.

Also practice, practice, practice! When I first started ridding I prepared for different situations in a parking lot no muscle memory pretty much takes over and no panic when a situation comes up.

[Dino]

Originally Posted by Tufbusa

I'll step in here quickly for my two cents worth for whatever it's worth.

When I take students out on the track, I always press the thought of "Stay off the rear brake" if you want to take your bike home with the plastics still in tack. I usually tell them if I see their brake foot on the pedal, they don't have to be using it, just in place where they can push the pedal in a SR (Survival Reaction) I'll break their foot! But it still doesn't sink in with everyone. They have to be reminded throughout the day.

I've seen some of the nastiest crashes as a result of rear brake use. The reason people get so attached to the rear brake is the front brake scares them. It just does not feel stable or safe to stand on the front brake. However, use of the rear brake makes the bike behave in a much more managable way. Then it becomes a love affair with the rear brake. Remember, it's the things you don't fear that will bite you.

A sport bike on dry pavement with good sticky rubber gives 100% braking on the front. The rear is only used to help steer the bike in the corners. If you have no experience at steering the bike with the rear brake, you have no reason to use it on clean dry pavement.

Some have said emergency stopping is the place for using both brakes. Actually, that is the very worst time to use the rear brake. If you are standing on the front brake, the rear is so light just the slightest touch of the rear brake will lock the tire and if you avoid a highside in that situation you should buy a lottery ticket at the very first convenience store you come across.

If you are on both brakes in a maximum stopping situation (Emergency stop) and the rear does not lock, you are not using the front brake effectively.

Braking is an learned skill no different than cornering. If you don't practice, you never become efficient.

Just my two cents worth which means absolutely nothing to anyone but me but I'm old and gray and still alive !

Tuf I look to you as a primary source for all things track related. That said, help me undederstand your other statements about braking on the street. You said: A sport bike on dry pavement with good sticky rubber gives 100% braking on the front.

How is this the case if you still have braking ability with the rear?

Also: Actually, that is the very worst time to use the rear brake. If you are standing on the front brake, the rear is so light just the slightest touch of the rear brake will lock the tire

I understand that this could answer the first question but please give a little explaination of body position as related to "standing on the front brake".

Lastly: Braking is an learned skill no different than cornering. If you don't practice, you never become efficient. 100% Spot on.

[Hobo]

Originally Posted by Pearso

I agree that you need to be comfortable with max ft brake and believe me I am , all I'm saying is in daily use on the street (when I'm not riding 10/10 IE just piddling around) I don't use it much.


some will probalby say its a bad habit (and who am I to disagree) and no I'm not recomending anyone else do the same unless it works for them, but it works for me

On the other hand I have a different environment to ride in than most org members too (not an excuse!) I live in a small Austrailan coastal town not a hell of a lot of traffic so maybe that helps me out, iether way I've been thinking of doing an advanced rider corse, it doesn't hurt to try and better your skills

I've been thinking of doing an advanced rider corse, it doesn't hurt to try and better your skills[/quote]
+ 10

[coreywiley]

Thats the way I learned so I stuck with it

[2busa]

I removed the rear brake off my last bike. Shaved 4lbs off the bike. The bike I have now, I can show you the rear disc has lines and the pads are not scrubbed in. Maybe a hand full of rear brake after 8,000 miles on one fast bike.

Unbeaten in the canyons I might add. So, I don't need to ear Reg or Eye Notch, mark a nick in my gun butt I kid you knot.

Someone bet me... I dare ya.

[illuminati]

I use my rear brake unless I need to stop real quick. I try to never use my front break in a turn and if I do, I use it sparingly.

[Lamb busa]

Lamb never uses the rear brake. He has the rust on the rotor surface to prove it.

[Busa Jules]

On the Busa, I use a LOT more rear brake than I do on the R6.. if I even THINK about touching the rear brake o the R6 it locks up.. but on the Busa.. I'm a rear brake addict. I use it mostly for stop signs.. and stuff like that.. when coming off the interstate I use a lot of engine braking as well as front (and a little bit of rear).

I'm still bad about covering the rear brake ALL the time It's kind of like my secuurity blanket until it locks up on me.. but even then I still cover it.

And DocDrop has just about become a pro at changing rear brake pads on the Busa..

[Tufbusa]

Originally Posted by Dino

Tuf I look to you as a primary source for all things track related. That said, help me undederstand your other statements about braking on the street. You said: A sport bike on dry pavement with good sticky rubber gives 100% braking on the front.

How is this the case if you still have braking ability with the rear?

If you are using the front brake to its maximum potential, there is no rear brake available. Look at it like this: If you are launching your bike at the drags and have the front tire two inches off the pavement, you have maximum thrust. No matter how much hp you have, the excess is unusable at this point. Same with braking. If you have the rear tire two inches off the pavement, you cannot generate any more stopping power no matter what you do. All the weight is on the front tire generating 100% efficiency. If you are maximizing the front brake, any use of the rear brake will skid the tire causing the rear to step out. The most effective braking for street riding is to leave barely enough weight on the rear tire to keep it rolling. This will keep the rear tire in alignment with the front.

Also: Actually, that is the very worst time to use the rear brake. If you are standing on the front brake, the rear is so light just the slightest touch of the rear brake will lock the tire

I understand that this could answer the first question but please give a little explaination of body position as related to "standing on the front brake".

If you want to brake hard, slide your bum to the rear of the seat to help keep the rear end down. Has the same effect as leaning over the bars to help hold the front down on hard accelleration.

Lastly: Braking is an learned skill no different than cornering. If you don't practice, you never become efficient. 100% Spot on.

Results of my haphazard experiences!

[Mrs.Rubber2Burn]

Thanks for all these answers. I have noticed that I do A LOT of downshifting to slow down and then use the brakes to actually stop (does that actually translate from my brain to writing??).

I am going to A) pay more attention to some of these habits and hone it on what is going to work best and B) go back to the parking lot to practice, practice, and practice!

[shadetree57]

They put the rear brake on the bike for a reason. You have to know when and when not to use it. My driveway has pinestraw in it so when coming down it to the carport, I use the rear brake only just for slowing. I always use both brakes when coming to a stopsighn or redlight. Naturally, You need to depend more on the front because that is where most of the stopping power comes from but I feel that you need to get used to using both to help you in an emergency stop. It all depends on the situation.

[Tufbusa]

Originally Posted by shadetree57

They put the rear brake on the bike for a reason. You have to know when and when not to use it. My driveway has pinestraw in it so when coming down it to the carport, I use the rear brake only just for slowing. I always use both brakes when coming to a stopsighn or redlight. Naturally, You need to depend more on the front because that is where most of the stopping power comes from but I feel that you need to get used to using both to help you in an emergency stop. It all depends on the situation.

I totally agree with you that the rear brake has many useful applications. When traction is limited, the rear brake is your dearest friend. However, we do not agree on adding rear brake during emergency braking if good traction is available. If you are using your front brake properly, there is not enough rear traction to assist in braking. If you loose rear traction by use of the brake while braking hard on the front, your chances of a highside goes through the roof!

The solution to efficient and safe braking is practice. Lots and lots of practice. Braking instruction is also a great learning tool.

[LA Busa]

I usually use the front (90%), the rear (5%) and lastly... take my hands off of the bars and stick both arms out in a 'Jesus on the cross' sort of fashion (hands cupped to catch air) (5%).
Its a tricky process to master but track control riders always find it interesting....

[Rev. 6:5]

I don't unless I have to stop VERY quickly. The back brake on the Busa doesn't inspire any confidence into me. I have to lay all my weight onto it to even feel it slow me down. My '04 Gixxer 600 would lock up the rear tire if I put weight onto it. Not the Busa. I guess it's just too heavy to notice much difference.

The front brakes on this bike, however, are the best I've felt in 24 years of riding.

[LA Busa]

Originally Posted by Rev. 6:5

I don't unless I have to stop VERY quickly. The back brake on the Busa doesn't inspire any confidence into me. I have to lay all my weight onto it to even feel it slow me down. My '04 Gixxer 600 would lock up the rear tire if I put weight onto it. Not the Busa. I guess it's just too heavy to notice much difference.

The front brakes on this bike, however, are the best I've felt in 24 years of riding.

Love your Sig Rev.

Just had to let you know, I MESS WITH TEXAS on a more than regular basis.... since I married one of your denizens!