ISIS v USA

[Tony Nitrous]

Not sure how widespread this story is in the US ?

I only spotted it due to knowing John Cantlie when I lived in the UK (he was a bike mag journalist) and following his posts since he's been captured by ISIS and used as a PR front. Johns a good bloke and I guess he's just doing what it takes to say alive, poor bugger.

A nuclear threat though ?

ISIS close to buying nuclear weapon from Pakistan and smuggling it to US | Daily Mail Online

Isis claims it could buy its first nuclear weapon from Pakistan within 12 months - Middle East - World - The Independent

 

[fallenarch]

That's pretty much BS. All of these guys know that a major bomb in the USA would unleash the loins of hell and we would go after them with extreme prejudice. Basically no ISIS in 6 months. personally I don't think Osamma Bin Laden did 9/11 directly. But he took credit for it and look at the arse whooping he unleashed on himself and the Taliban. And we were being "restrained" with that. First group to detonate a major bomb here in the USA and we will turn the desert sand to glass beneath their feet.

 

[jellyrug]

That's pretty much BS. All of these guys know that a major bomb in the USA would unleash the loins of hell and we would go after them with extreme prejudice. Basically no ISIS in 6 months. personally I don't think Osamma Bin Laden did 9/11 directly. But he took credit for it and look at the arse whooping he unleashed on himself and the Taliban. And we were being "restrained" with that. First group to detonate a major bomb here in the USA and we will turn the desert sand to glass beneath their feet.

I would think enough money can buy a nuke, either Russia or Pakistan. What you are missing, is the radicals do not think the way you do. There is no rational thought on their behalf, death to them is a belief of moving to a better place. You have to live there for a few years to understand that there is no alignment whatsoever to your values compared to theirs. If this was understood before Iraq was invaded, there would have been no ISIL. Saddam knew how to deal with this value system, plus he kept Iran in check.

 

[kml]

What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

 

[GNBRETT]

That's pretty much BS. All of these guys know that a major bomb in the USA would unleash the loins of hell and we would go after them with extreme prejudice. Basically no ISIS in 6 months. personally I don't think Osamma Bin Laden did 9/11 directly. But he took credit for it and look at the arse whooping he unleashed on himself and the Taliban. And we were being "restrained" with that. First group to detonate a major bomb here in the USA and we will turn the desert sand to glass beneath their feet.

unfortunately I don't think they giv a rats ass about unleashing the lions of of hell. in fact, id say they welcome it. their lives consist of fighting and thats it.

until we come to terms with the reality that "no boots on the ground" isn't gonna defeat ISIS then they will continue to grow and take more land and seize more money to further their jahid.

they cud care less about being turned to dust. their all going to see Allah...... its wat many of them look forward to which is wat makes them dangerous fighters cause their value of life is far less then our soldiers.

and if a NUKE was dropped where wud the US then drop a NUKE on them? they don't have a single place they call home. u can't just drop one in the middle east and hope u kill a bunch of ISIS members.

it all comes down to money. if u have the funds u can likely buy or have built just about anything in the world. it only take ONE. and the size of NUKES these days can be the size of a suit case.

and u think crossing the border into the US is tough? tell that to the illegal immigrants that pass thru by the thousands daily in the southeast.

 

[Tony Nitrous]

Some interesting feed back. Thanks guys.
Whist I'm undecided about the chance of it happening I think it'd be pretty dumb to 100% rule it out.
Some of the terrorist acts of the last few years would have been treated the same way previously.

Whilst ISIS get closer and closer to the prize of Baghdad, and have already blown up a mosque in Saudi Arabia it still seems a long way off from those of us in the US, UK and Australia, but the fact is they are still advancing and growing. Working on the theory they will continue its only a mater of time until the get to a Western country with more than isolated terrorist strikes.

It's easy to sit back and say nuke them, but realistically there are millions of innocent folk caught up in this, us having nukes isn't really a help, I don't remember them in Afganistan or the Gulf etc ? but to them to have them is. Them don't care.

I read the news. Ive see global conficts around the world all my life. They come, they go, but this has the potential to be something else.

 

[fallenarch]

Have you ever seen an ISIS leader commit suicide? Notice they where head covers when they kill people? They care about living, they just don't mind sacrificing someone else's life. All of these people know that you can irritate the US to no end and all of your "people" will say wow he is powerful. But really stick the US so we feel it and there is no more ruthless SOBs in the world today. These guys know not to cross the line. How long do you think Nukes have been available on the black market?

It's propaganda that these people are just raving mad crazy animals. They have a means to their madness. The tough part is we have always been able to just pay off the strong man and give them enough weapons to keep power. Now these guys want control without any US strings and I'm not sure the world is ready for that. Obama is doing the right thing. It's been a long time sine the USA said "you guys work out your own problems". We don't need the oil, the world doesn't need the oil. It's time to let these people fight it out themselves and create their own borders. Maybe after a few years of ISIS they will have a little more appreciation for Uncle Sam?

 

[jellyrug]

It's easy to sit back and say nuke them, but realistically there are millions of innocent folk caught up in this, us having nukes isn't really a help, I don't remember them in Afganistan or the Gulf etc ? but to them to have them is. Them don't care.

That is the problem. We have to remain on moral high ground and protect ourselves from the media, while they do not give a hoot! If a country cannot control it's own land, then we have to go in and help, while there is little or no appreciation in return. Some day, being the "good guys" will either destroy us or the life we are used to; alternatively it will no longer be possible.

 

[Tony Nitrous]

We don't need the oil, the world doesn't need the oil.

I will agree with you on that one.
Looking at various sources the figures normally say that Yes, the Middle East is producer, but not to a degree that it holds a winning hand. Sure they have enough clout to make prices fluctuate and rise, but they aren't going to hold the world to ransom. It would be interesting to see the effect of losing their (and possibly Africa's) supply would effect our price and usage. Remembering other country's that currently use their oil will effect the US's supply and prices if they can't buy from the gulf.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Isis nor Iran have any desire or interest in direct conflict with the USA.
You know who is more of a threat to your security and peace of mind?
The American congress that's who. How many freedoms has Isis taken from you?
And the Congress gives you the Patriot act and allows the NSA to tap and record every conversation in the country.

If you honestly think that Irans sole goal is the acquisition of a Nuclear weapon so the very day after they get it they can unleash it on Israel or us than your a very naive person. Iran may want nuclear power and weapons so as to gain leverage on the worldwide scene. But they have no intent on ever using one against us. If they got one and then sold it or gave it to somebody so they could use it against us the origin of said weapon would easily be able to be found. And then the next day Iran would cease to exist as the entire world came down upon them.
Well Iran chants 'death to Israel/USA' you say. Yes some of them do. But this is no different than when Obama says things he has no intention of going thru with. It's called pandering to the extremes so as to continue their political careers.
All of Iran does not hate us or Israel. In fact a very little percentage does. But of course the main stream media portrays it to seem as if all of Iran wants to attack us.
The same goes for Isis. Isis simply wants to establish order in a region full of strife and turmoil. For years the puppet govt we put in place in Iraq discriminated against the minorities there. Certain elements got tired of it and seized their opportunity to establish a Caliphate and order there. Sure they have killed many, sure they have beheaded many and sure their methods and ideologies are vastly different than ours. But really this is an area which has been fought over for centuries. And it's not really any of our business nor should it be. Now that isis has taken Ramadi they will soon begin to stage against Baghdad. It will fall. And then all of Iraq will be under their rule. None of this is a direct threat to the USA.
And if you wonder why they attempt attacks against us just ask yourself how long we have been dropping bombs on their women and children. Our foreign policy created the radicalism and hatred toward us. And from that Isis has grown.
Pull out, leave them to their own and in no time at all the lone wolf attacks here and in other places will soon cease.

And for anyone who's still unsure as to how and where ISIS came about please pay close attn.

 

[Tony Nitrous]

A lot of that depends on if you believe they will draw a line in the sand and say "this is where we stop" and that if the EU / US / AU pulled out they would be happy to live on their sand dune and no continue on, and that their many followers and supporters in westernised countries would be happy to live there in peace ?

 

[GNBRETT]

Obama is doing the right thing. It's been a long time sine the USA said "you guys work out your own problems". We don't need the oil, the world doesn't need the oil. It's time to let these people fight it out themselves and create their own borders. Maybe after a few years of ISIS they will have a little more appreciation for Uncle Sam?

its not about the oil. its about the stability of the Middle East where we have allies. these allies also give us military options. we need places to land and places to dock our battle ships. its much deeper then... "let them work out their own problems". it really demonstrates Obama's cluelessness wen it comes to foreign affairs.

WE created this monster by invading Iraq over nothing. well, not nothing. plenty of US politicians had a vested military interest due to military contracts. ISIS continues to grow stronger so the "Let em work out their own problems" may sound good on paper but the reality is we are going to have to put troops on the ground so they can fight them surgically. too many innocent ppl to just carpet bomb the place.

their cowards just like the Palestinians are. they will have no issue hiding behind churches and schools to launch their rockets and wen the opposing side returns fire they cry and say u targeted civilians. chit makes me lol and smh.

 

[GNBRETT]

Iran may want nuclear power and weapons so as to gain leverage on the worldwide scene. But they have no intent on ever using one against us.

I don't think anyone is concerned about Iran using Nukes against the US. that isn't and never has been the concern. the concern is using them against Israel. I'm sure ALL of Iran does not hate Israel but those in power sure do.

Saiid, no offense but I think u have a real misunderstanding of wats goin on with ISIS and wat they are trying to do. u portray them as "Victims". cmon... the REAL victims are the CIVILIANS getting their heads cut off on Utube. ISIS is about money and power and wants the whole world to pray to Allah so cut the chit with them cowards wanting to establish order. thats the most comical thing I've ever read from you.

yea, ur right. them SAVAGES have been fighting for centuries over their JAHID! the world is really getting sick of muslims and their JAHID.

and ur 100% WRONG wen u say NONE of this has a direct threat to the US. are you like living in a cave or something? where do u think these terrorists are brain washed to HATE america and TRAIN to kill americans and plot against america or any of its allies? some MUSLIM country. aint happening anywhere else around the world.

here you go with dropping bombs on MUSLIM women and children. well, maybe wen MUSLIMS stop blowing chit up and leaving IED's everywhere for our soldiers to die from then we will stop dropping bombs on TERRORISTS! yea, wen your a terrorist and hide in places that have civilians then yes women and children are going to DIE. its called WAR! its exactly wat the COWARDS over on the Gaza strip do daily to the Israelis.

its amazing wenevr there is a terrorist strike somewhere in the world a MUSLIM terrorist is behind it. its amazing isn't it?

 

[fallenarch]

It's crazy how we forget the history of this part of the world and how we terrorized and exploited it. Since the value of oil was established in the eighteen hundreds we have been trying to figure out how to steal it. Now that all of that is coming home to roost, we call them crazy for hating us?

When I was young I was always bigger than most people in my class. When I would get into a fight (rarely but every once in awhile), the smaller guys would use sticks rocks, whatever they could find to even things up. It's sort of the same thing here - we are an unstoppable force directly so they use what they can. It's not a fair fight, these people are no different than we were when the British thought we were savages for not opposing them with firing lines and hiding in the trees.

There is also a bit of projection in our attitudes toward Muslims. There are more Muslims in the world than Christians yet the Muslim world has never had the colonial mentality the Christians do. The history does not paint a good image of Christianity, specifically our dealings with Muslim countries and peoples. Sorry, those are just the facts.

The truth is the biggest threat to this country comes from two directions. First if China can become a rival financial force and convince significant parts of the world to move off of the dollar as the monetary standard, our loans would be called in immediately. Second is the terrorist in our mists, Christian fundamentalists, white supremacists, militia, and the "Zombies" (chronically unemployable). The government does not want to admit this publically but that's why they insist on spying on the people.

I would not knuckle under to anyone's threats and I don't really care how we got where we are. But I'm also not blind to how we got to this point and that looking at people who disagree with you as crazy makes a solution unlikely.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

I don't think anyone is concerned about Iran using Nukes against the US. that isn't and never has been the concern. the concern is using them against Israel. I'm sure ALL of Iran does not hate Israel but those in power sure do.

Saiid, no offense but I think u have a real misunderstanding of wats goin on with ISIS and wat they are trying to do. u portray them as "Victims". cmon... the REAL victims are the CIVILIANS getting their heads cut off on Utube. ISIS is about money and power and wants the whole world to pray to Allah so cut the chit with them cowards wanting to establish order. thats the most comical thing I've ever read from you.

yea, ur right. them SAVAGES have been fighting for centuries over their JAHID! the world is really getting sick of muslims and their JAHID.

and ur 100% WRONG wen u say NONE of this has a direct threat to the US. are you like living in a cave or something? where do u think these terrorists are brain washed to HATE america and TRAIN to kill americans and plot against america or any of its allies? some MUSLIM country. aint happening anywhere else around the world.

here you go with dropping bombs on MUSLIM women and children. well, maybe wen MUSLIMS stop blowing chit up and leaving IED's everywhere for our soldiers to die from then we will stop dropping bombs on TERRORISTS! yea, wen your a terrorist and hide in places that have civilians then yes women and children are going to DIE. its called WAR! its exactly wat the COWARDS over on the Gaza strip do daily to the Israelis.

its amazing wenevr there is a terrorist strike somewhere in the world a MUSLIM terrorist is behind it. its amazing isn't it?

Brett you are an ignorant fool who has most likely never left Connecticut and has no idea what he's talking about.
I've been to the Middle East and every country there more times than I can remember. Iran has ZERO intent on Nuking Israel as the result would be the same, Iran would cease to exist the next day. You cannot be that naive. No I don't live in a cave. I've studied Mid East politics for decades while you on the other hand can't even spell correctly.

We baited Saddam into invading Kuwait and when he did we invaded and expelled him. From that point on with our no fly zones we have been dropping bombs on them for decades. Keep on thinking they just woke up one day and said eenie meenie miney moe who can we hate. Their hatred is a direct derivative of our foreign policy against them. Again if you can't see that you're very naive. Let's see USA invades Iraq and the people there rise up and plant IEDs to kill the foreign troops who aren't welcome? Hmmm. So if shoe was on other foot and Iraqi troops invaded Ct you wouldn't be out trying to kill every single one of them as well? Sure you would. You would defend your homeland the same as they do. So don't blame them. Guess what no occupying troops on foreign soil and there won't be any IEDs killing our guys. Really quite simple it is. We train our troops to hate and kill our enemies. You think they don't have same right to do similar? I see the great USA has come to town, you have no right to resist or defend your land. That's how you think? Fantasy you are in not I.

Do some research why don't you? Seems to me according to the ones who know Muslim terrorists are in the minority.
And in fact Jewish radicals have committed more acts of terrorism in the USA than Muslims. Muslims are in the minority when it comes to terrorist acts committed worldwide. It is just that our media and govt has an agenda to keep simple minded folks like you convinced they are the majority.

Jewish Extremists Have Committed More Acts Of Terrorism In The US Than Muslim Extremists | Alternative

Turn Fox News off and get out a bit. When was the last time you actually spoke to a Muslim.
When was the last time you visited a Muslim country? When was last time you were invited into their home and had dinner with them?

My dollar is bet the answer to all three is NEVER. And yet you feel like you have a right to an opinion.
Good grief it's folks like you who are the problem not ISIS.

 

[fallenarch]

. ... you on the other hand can't even spell correctly.

I resemble that!

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

I resemble that!

The media has everyone so scared that one day they may wake up to Isis soldiers walking down their streets and all of us will suddenly be under Sharia law. That is the most laughable thing I've ever heard in my life.

Like is said, who's actually taken more of your liberties away, the U.S. Congress or isis?
Congress as we speak is trying to extend the Patriot Act which gives them unlimited power to listen to and record your phone calls, tap your emails, arrest and detain you without ever charging you, interrogate you for an unlimited time without legal counsel being present and even deport you to some foreign prison without ever telling anyone. You could simply DISAPPEAR if Mitch McConnell has his way.
And we are worried about nutjobs 8,000 miles away? Geesh people in the USA have become scared brainwashed sheeple.

 

[jellyrug]

It's crazy how we forget the history of this part of the world and how we terrorized and exploited it. Since the value of oil was established in the eighteen hundreds we have been trying to figure out how to steal it. Now that all of that is coming home to roost, we call them crazy for hating us?

When I was young I was always bigger than most people in my class. When I would get into a fight (rarely but every once in awhile), the smaller guys would use sticks rocks, whatever they could find to even things up. It's sort of the same thing here - we are an unstoppable force directly so they use what they can. It's not a fair fight, these people are no different than we were when the British thought we were savages for not opposing them with firing lines and hiding in the trees.

There is also a bit of projection in our attitudes toward Muslims. There are more Muslims in the world than Christians yet the Muslim world has never had the colonial mentality the Christians do. The history does not paint a good image of Christianity, specifically our dealings with Muslim countries and peoples. Sorry, those are just the facts.

The truth is the biggest threat to this country comes from two directions. First if China can become a rival financial force and convince significant parts of the world to move off of the dollar as the monetary standard, our loans would be called in immediately. Second is the terrorist in our mists, Christian fundamentalists, white supremacists, militia, and the "Zombies" (chronically unemployable). The government does not want to admit this publically but that's why they insist on spying on the people.

I would not knuckle under to anyone's threats and I don't really care how we got where we are. But I'm also not blind to how we got to this point and that looking at people who disagree with you as crazy makes a solution unlikely.

If that was true, why are all the folks from Africa trying to escape to join the colonists? I would call it "Irony". First they blamed and hated those who colonized them, then they got their land back, now they are drowning in the seas as refugees, escaping their own governments to try and get to the countries who originally colonized them.

Go live in the Middle East for at least 5 years, then see if your opinion is still the same.

 

[fallenarch]

If that was true, why are all the folks from Africa trying to escape to join the colonists? I would call it "Irony". First they blamed and hated those who colonized them, then they got their land back, now they are drowning in the seas as refugees, escaping their own governments to try and get to the countries who originally colonized them.

Go live in the Middle East for at least 5 years, then see if your opinion is still the same.

That's why you're here too? The answer to that is people like you are arming the worst of them and killing off the best then running over here after you made a total mess of everything.

 

[jellyrug]

That's why you're here too? The answer to that is people like you are arming the worst of them and killing off the best then running over here after you made a total mess of everything.

Actually, the reason I am here is because the Fortune 10 guys had a bit of a rough time finding the right skill sets locally. And, they were willing to pay for what they needed. Also, I got tired of living on airplanes travelling here and back all the time

However Arch, try and look at the bigger picture. Here is a thought for you in the link below, from the smartest man I know.

If that does not give you a little inspiration as to where we should be heading as a global society, you are old school and I rest my case.