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Thread: President supports gay marriage

  1. #21
    Professional Pilot Easy E's Avatar
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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    It's about time he takes a stand. One way or another!! It's about time he gets some "cojones" politcal fallout be damned.
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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    States still have a choice.
    In NC the law does not permit it.
    I think girls look at this different than guys.
    For me, there is no right or wrong, I'm just glad I am healthy and normal, so is everyone else in my family.
    I would guess this was not Obama's sole choice, it was probably carefully debated and strategically decided.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gpmo

    More history is needed. America was founded by people fleeing the old world for being prosecuted for their religious beliefs or social standings We were founded on the idea of freedom of religion NOT to be run by religion. Then theres the whole taxation w/o representation and such. Also In god we trust was added to a lot of things including our money In the mid 1900s as a propaganda ploy. It wasn't originally designed to be there nor in our pledge of allegiance. .

    Do some reading and see how some of our founders felt about the role of religion in government. It's rather interesting. Also read about how the persecuted came to the new world an switched roles.

    As for why would Obama loose votes it's mainly to do with Latinos and African American. See both groups are generally left leaning but with some social issues are extremely conservative. And one of those issues is homosexuality. By coming out and say he support he risk those votes being lost or even for heads to look at the right side. Plus the amount of independent voters In this country is growing fast. This is a big population who may have beliefs in social conservatism but not fiscal and vice versa. I'm amazed he said it personally.

    Saiid you sir are a good man.
    In God We Trust was added in 1864. The pilgrims, who were Christians, left Europe to escape religious persecution. They were followed by puritans, also Christian, that created bible based commonwealths.
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    It's amazing how history has been rewritten.

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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    Brings to mind the song by Depechmode "people are people"
    "Never drive faster that your angels can fly"

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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    My problem isn't with who gets married, It's with heterosexuals talking chit and our divorce rates are thru the roof. If marriage is so sacred then instead of getting a divorce, honor the part that says until death do us part, and kill yourself. As far as adopting, look at how many kids are in the system. If your not going to step up and adopt a fellow Innocent human being then shut the fuk up when someone else does. This is not meant to take a dig at those who have gone thru a divorce, but for those who have, and talk chit on this subject.

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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by VaBusa View Post
    Gay marriage has never bothered me; honestly don't understand the huge frickin' deal. Two people want to be together, marry, who cares?

    As for Obama, while I'm not a fan of his, and it's sooooo hard for me to believe ANYTHING ANY politician says isn't to gain votes, perhaps this is truly how he feels and he felt it was finally OK to say so...in the end, what difference does him saying this truly make? Not much, IMHO...
    Vabs, it' s not about the 'marriage' part that they want it - it's the Social Security, Insurance, Child support, etc bennies/rights that come along with the legally "married" moniker.

    What gets me is that a 'legal union' isn't enough. "Marriage" is a religious institution - and obviously these people don't belive in the Bible that clearly spells out homosexuality as a sin. So, you wonder, what could the purpose of forcing the term 'marriage' unless its just a further assault on religion?

    I could care less (except feel sorry for their souls) what they do behind closed doors - but do NOT lessen the sanctity of MY MARRIAGE by giving these people the same status. Call it legal union all you want, but it's never going to be a MARRIAGE.

    IN addition, is anyone really buying that this was a 'gaffe' on Biden's part, or a cleaverly crafted CAMPAIGN strategy?

    - Biden inadavertantly 'gaffes'
    - Obama, who by the way previously campaigned that marriage was sacred bond between man and woman only, now has a 'change of heart' - going for the gay vote
    - Obama, who previously campaigned that "it was between him and God that he couldn't support it", threw God under the bus.
    - Obama said this morning that "while I didn't want to come out on this issue until later in the summer..." blah blah blah - totally a re-election move.

    Give me a break. I just hope Romney sticks to his guns and says "I cannot in clear conscience support Gay Marriage as it contradicts my religious belief's, but I think it's a state's right to decide what they wish to allow, and I will follow the currrent law of the land - Defense of Marriage Act"...

    People act like this "revelation" is a good thing - yet they are too blind to see this is a continuation of our moral decay.
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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    And, sorry Said, that's a heartwarning story, but I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts these kids have a 80% change of being all screwed up when they get older. Call it legal union all you want, but don't for a sec think that this is a "Marriage"....
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by skydivr View Post
    Vabs, it' s not about the 'marriage' part that they want it - it's the Social Security, Insurance, Child support, etc bennies/rights that come along with the legally "married" moniker.

    What gets me is that a 'legal union' isn't enough. "Marriage" is a religious institution - and obviously these people don't belive in the Bible that clearly spells out homosexuality as a sin. So, you wonder, what could the purpose of forcing the term 'marriage' unless its just a further assault on religion?

    I could care less (except feel sorry for their souls) what they do behind closed doors - but do NOT lessen the sanctity of MY MARRIAGE by giving these people the same status. Call it legal union all you want, but it's never going to be a MARRIAGE.

    IN addition, is anyone really buying that this was a 'gaffe' on Biden's part, or a cleaverly crafted CAMPAIGN strategy?

    - Biden inadavertantly 'gaffes'
    - Obama, who by the way previously campaigned that marriage was sacred bond between man and woman only, now has a 'change of heart' - going for the gay vote
    - Obama, who previously campaigned that "it was between him and God that he couldn't support it", threw God under the bus.
    - Obama said this morning that "while I didn't want to come out on this issue until later in the summer..." blah blah blah - totally a re-election move.

    Give me a break. I just hope Romney sticks to his guns and says "I cannot in clear conscience support Gay Marriage as it contradicts my religious belief's, but I think it's a state's right to decide what they wish to allow, and I will follow the currrent law of the land - Defense of Marriage Act"...

    People act like this "revelation" is a good thing - yet they are too blind to see this is a continuation of our moral decay.
    You are basing all this on your belief of religion. What about those that don't believe in religion. Moral decay you mentionis based on your religion. It's baseless unless you believe. I am married and I am an atheist. Should I call my marriage a union according to you that's what it will be. People's right should not be based on religious beliefs.
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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    Let's concentrate on getting all of these tampon commercials off TV during my dinner time.
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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy E View Post
    You are basing all this on your belief of religion. What about those that don't believe in religion. Moral decay you mentionis based on your religion. It's baseless unless you believe. I am married and I am an atheist. Should I call my marriage a union according to you that's what it will be. People's right should not be based on religious beliefs.
    If you are an athiest, and don't believe in God, then why do you need or want a 'Marriage" as 'Marriage' is a religious institution? Why is a legal union not good enough - unless you just want to bring down religion...How can you have a marriage if you don't believe in it? Or is it just in name only?

    Also, notice your signature..."don't ride faster than your angels can fly"...? Interesting statement coming from someone claiming to be athiest....

    Not a personal attack just an observation...
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    No personal attack taken. I did not say i don't believe in marriage. I said I dont believe in Religion. nor that marriage is a Religious institution. Who says it is? I been "Married" for twenty years. It's not in name only but a marriage of two people who love each other. Here is a defintion:Courtesy of Wikipedia.

    Marriage (also called matrimony or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship. The definition of marriage varies according to different cultures, but is usually an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged. Such a union is often formalized via a wedding ceremony. Many cultures limit marriage to two persons of the opposite sex, but some allow forms of polygamous marriage, and some recognize same-sex marriage. In some cultures, marriage is recommended or compulsory before pursuing any sexual activity.

    People marry for many reasons, including one or more of the following: legal, social, libidinal, emotional, economic, spiritual, and religious. These might include arranged marriages, family obligations, the legal establishment of a nuclear family unit, the legal protection of children and public declaration of commitment.[1][2] The act of marriage usually creates normative or legal obligations between the individuals involved. Some cultures allow the dissolution of marriage through divorce or annulment.

    Marriage can be recognized by a state, an organization, a religious authority, a tribal group, a local community or peers. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution IRRSPECTIVE OF RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction.

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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    I am going to jump around all around on this - but for Saiid, sounds like you grew from you experience and I applaud you for that; it isn't often that a person's mind actually changes once thier opinions are formed and seated.

    As for the politics of all this - well, I suppose that this is where it gets dicey for me. First of all - and this is just my opinion - but there is no such thing as a separation between church and state. Those words do not appear anywhere in the constitution or the bill of rights. That is a paraphrased, overthought and overreaching sentance fragment. What the constitution and the bill of rights do guarantee is the freedom for, or from religion; without the government dictating a specific religion. The NC vote on Amendment 1? Why all the hubbub? NC is the 31st state to do this; gay marriages were already prohibited. Now, as for the President - he did not speak clearly - he stumbled, heavily on his words. I could respect what he had said, if it was as simple as "personally, I support Gay Marriage". That is not what he said - not that simply and directly... watch the videos of him speaking. Why come out with that the day after the vote? Why all the issues over the Vice President's statement, and then the administration's backstep. If the President supports or doesn't support gay marriage, who cares really? If his stance is that it is a state's issue, then why involve himself at all. These are people's lives, not a campaign slogan - not a bumper sticker. Support it, or don't -but I don't care about your opinion once you declare that you have no place in the discussion.

    At the end, here is what I hate: you don't get to defend your rights, by stepping on someone elses... you can't use your free speech to stiffle the free speech of others.
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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy E View Post
    No personal attack taken. I did not say i don't believe in marriage. I said I dont believe in Religion. nor that marriage is a Religious institution. Who says it is? I been "Married" for twenty years. It's not in name only but a marriage of two people who love each other. Here is a defintion:Courtesy of Wikipedia.

    Marriage (also called matrimony or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship. The definition of marriage varies according to different cultures, but is usually an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged. Such a union is often formalized via a wedding ceremony. Many cultures limit marriage to two persons of the opposite sex, but some allow forms of polygamous marriage, and some recognize same-sex marriage. In some cultures, marriage is recommended or compulsory before pursuing any sexual activity.

    People marry for many reasons, including one or more of the following: legal, social, libidinal, emotional, economic, spiritual, and religious. These might include arranged marriages, family obligations, the legal establishment of a nuclear family unit, the legal protection of children and public declaration of commitment.[1][2] The act of marriage usually creates normative or legal obligations between the individuals involved. Some cultures allow the dissolution of marriage through divorce or annulment.

    Marriage can be recognized by a state, an organization, a religious authority, a tribal group, a local community or peers. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution IRRSPECTIVE OF RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction.

    The angels in my sig are used metaphorically. And by the way your sig should read Jumps out of perfectly good airplanes.
    That Wikipedia article has been so edited by the PC crowd to remove any reference to marriage being a religious ceremony it's almost funny. Someone has removed the "HOLY" part that usually preceeds "Matrimony". If you were married in a church, then it was a religious ceremony.

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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MC MUSTANG View Post
    I am going to jump around all around on this - but for Saiid, sounds like you grew from you experience and I applaud you for that; it isn't often that a person's mind actually changes once thier opinions are formed and seated.

    As for the politics of all this - well, I suppose that this is where it gets dicey for me. First of all - and this is just my opinion - but there is no such thing as a separation between church and state. Those words do not appear anywhere in the constitution or the bill of rights. That is a paraphrased, overthought and overreaching sentance fragment. What the constitution and the bill of rights do guarantee is the freedom for, or from religion; without the government dictating a specific religion. The NC vote on Amendment 1? Why all the hubbub? NC is the 31st state to do this; gay marriages were already prohibited. Now, as for the President - he did not speak clearly - he stumbled, heavily on his words. I could respect what he had said, if it was as simple as "personally, I support Gay Marriage". That is not what he said - not that simply and directly... watch the videos of him speaking. Why come out with that the day after the vote? Why all the issues over the Vice President's statement, and then the administration's backstep. If the President supports or doesn't support gay marriage, who cares really? If his stance is that it is a state's issue, then why involve himself at all. These are people's lives, not a campaign slogan - not a bumper sticker. Support it, or don't -but I don't care about your opinion once you declare that you have no place in the discussion.

    At the end, here is what I hate: you don't get to defend your rights, by stepping on someone elses... you can't use your free speech to stiffle the free speech of others.
    You watch MC; you know there is a movement afoot to remove any prayer from any military ceremony...

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    Quote Originally Posted by skydivr View Post
    You watch MC; you know there is a movement afoot to remove any prayer from any military ceremony...
    Is the military a religious organization?
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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Gpmo View Post
    Is the military a religious organization?
    It sure is when you are getting shot at.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by skydivr View Post
    It sure is when you are getting shot at.....
    I have a bunch of Vet family members and friends that would disagree.
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas:

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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    Hmmmm...

    Mc thanks. Yes my eyes and mind are a little more open today.
    Easy E if your an atheist were you married in a church by a priest?
    If as Skydivr says you were being shot at who would you be crying to?
    Would a 'oh God save me!' come out?
    Keith, I'm married with children under church and priest. For almost six yrs since I've not taken my ring off for more than a moment or so. The vows I took are solid. I make decent money. These two guys had great jobs of many years and make more than double than me. This is where I get tripped up because I'd like to say that the two guys morals seems to be as good as mine but yet my morals say their lifestyle is wrong. But my point is that from what I saw those three kids have a better chance of being successful in tomorrow's world than mine because of the stability in their lives. I don't think it fair for you to say they have a great chance of being messed up later. Unless they were Jekyll and Hydes I cannot find fault in that.
    I do believe in God as well as destiny. He is master of all that is known. I can only see yesterday as his will. It was destined to happen and from it I'm a 'better' person. Now you won't find me marching down the street with them. But from now on before I snap shut my steel trap mind I'll be willing to listen a bit more.

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    Default Re: President supports gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by jellyrug View Post
    States still have a choice.
    In NC the law does not permit it.
    For now.....

    Both sides are going to continue to push this issue until some legal case about it finally does reach the Supreme Court.

    And that's when all those doG-fearing, bible-thumpin' conservatives are going to be very sad.... 'cuz this isn't about religion. At all.

    To illustrate, let's consider the sitting judges on the Supreme Court for a moment.....

    Kennedy consistently writes in court opinions that the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment is a constitutional guarantee for individual liberty, and that applying preferential treatment to certain groups denies individuals in other groups the same liberties. Therefore giving legal status only to heterosexual marriages allows the special privileges and recognition of a relationship to one group of people, while clearly denying it to another group... in this case, same-sex marriage.

    The equal protection clause speaks to equal protection under the law. America is a Constitutional Republic, that means we don't vote on civil rights, and marriage is a civil right. SCOTUS has ruled in one 14 different times. This means you need a reason that passes strict legal scrutiny to prohibit marriage.

    None of the following are legal reasons... the bible, koran, or any other book of ancient myths; your personal beliefs; jeebus; religion; your morals; doG; unproven paranoia; or your inability to unjustifiably force people to conform to how you want them to be.








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