Last remark of Obama's speech in VA last night...

[Over_Easy]

Originally Posted by 05 Busa LE

I actually read quite extensively about McCain and Obama before the election. From what you've written, I can easily tell that you haven't read much except party-line propaganda. But it doesn't matter, since Barack Obama is the President-Elect of the United States of America, and John McCain is a Senator from Arizona.

And if you really want me to answer each of your points, just respond and I'll be glad to provide you with the education I wish you would have obtained before you voted.

I am genuinely open to being educated about Obama if there is something about him I have horribly missed and I will send you a PM to respond to accordingly.

However, if you are going to tell me something along the lines of Obama will stomp out terrorism because he said so during his campaign you can save your fingers. I believe he will fight terrorism but not efficiently or in the fashion I desire (see boot heel to the head as opposed to kill with kindess). I've heard all his talking points and they're all the same for every candidate, but his methods of achieving these results is what I object to.

So if you have something credible, reasonable and plausable please send it my way and I will thank you.

[05 Busa LE]

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. Here's some simple economics: since we're currently spending $10,000,000,000.00 a month on a war that President-Elect Obama is going to end, maybe we can use a tiny fraction of that money to spur the economy? Or pay back our debts? Or invest in helping and training our forgotten Veterans? Or ... [you fill in the blank].

[05 Busa LE]

Oh, and I don't need to know that we're spending money we don't have (i.e., the Ten Billion Dollars a month).

[Over_Easy]

Originally Posted by 05 Busa LE

Aw, what the heck ... I'll just go ahead and do it. But don't take my word for it; you can see all of this on the President-Elect's website, barackobama.com. Here are the highlights from his website, but you can read the entire plan there as well.

Defense:

Barack Obama will rebuild the military for 21st century tasks:
Obama and Biden will complete the effort to increase our ground forces by 65,000 soldiers and 27,000 Marines. They will also invest in 21st century missions like counterinsurgency by building up our special operations forces, civil affairs, information operations, foreign language training and other units and capabilities that remain in chronic short supply.

Restore the readiness of the National Guard and Reserves:
Obama and Biden will provide the National Guard with the equipment it needs for foreign and domestic emergencies. They will ensure that reservists and Guard members are treated fairly when it comes to employment, health, and education benefits.

Engage our allies in meeting our common security challenges:
Obama and Biden will renew alliances and ensure our allies contribute their fair share to our mutual security.

Barack Obama will defeat terrorism worldwide:
Obama and Biden will find, disrupt, and destroy al Qaeda; prepare the military to meet 21st century threats; and win “the Battle of Ideas” by ensuring American foreign policy is consistent with America's traditional values.

Prevent nuclear terrorism:
Obama and Biden will lead the effort to secure nuclear weapons materials at vulnerable sites within four years and help our allies stop the smuggling of weapons of mass destruction.

Strengthen American biosecurity:
Obama and Biden will work to prevent bioterror attacks and mitigate consequences by improving U.S. intelligence collection and response management.

Immigration:

Barack Obama will secure our borders:
Obama and Biden want to preserve the integrity of our borders. They support additional personnel, infrastructure, and technology on the border and at our ports of entry.

Improve our immigration system:
Obama and Biden believe we must fix the dysfunctional immigration bureaucracy and increase the number of legal immigrants to keep families together and meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.

Bring people out of the shadows:
Obama and Biden support a system that requires undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.

Alternative Energy:

Provide short-term relief to American families facing pain at the pump
Help create five million new jobs by strategically investing $150 billion over the next ten years to catalyze private efforts to build a clean energy future.
Within 10 years save more oil than we currently import from the Middle East and Venezuela combined.

Put 1 million Plug-In Hybrid cars -- cars that can get up to 150 miles per gallon -- on the road by 2015, cars that we will work to make sure are built here in America.

Ensure 10 percent of our electricity comes from renewable sources by 2012, and 25 percent by 2025.

Implement an economy-wide cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.

Taxation:

Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.

Provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured, and families sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.

Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.

Dramatically simplify taxes by consolidating existing tax credits, eliminating the need for millions of senior citizens to file tax forms, and enabling as many as 40 million middle-class Americans to do their own taxes in less than five minutes without an accountant.

Women's Rights:

Supports a Woman's Right to Choose:
Barack Obama understands that abortion is a divisive issue, and respects those who disagree with him. However, he has been a consistent champion of reproductive choice and will make preserving women's rights under Roe v. Wade a priority as President. He opposes any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's decision in that case.

Preventing Unintended Pregnancy:
Barack Obama is an original co-sponsor of legislation to expand access to contraception, health information and preventive services to help reduce unintended pregnancies. Introduced in January 2007, the Prevention First Act will increase funding for family planning and comprehensive sex education that teaches both abstinence and safe sex methods. The Act will also end insurance discrimination against contraception, improve awareness about emergency contraception, and provide compassionate assistance to rape victims.

EXACTLY AS I THOUGHT!

Come freaking on! "And so it was written"...this is pure stump speech material. I love all his objectives put forth. We all want improved borders, strong military, assistance for the truly poor (this doesn't include people not willing to work or unmarried couples with kids who refuse to get married so they can receive a bigger handout from Uncle Sam), etc.

Why don't you investigate as to how in Obama's name he will be able to complete all this. I'll tell you...tax the living daylights out of all the hard working earners and pay for all his big government BS programs and handout breaks to bums who don't pay taxes.

[Over_Easy]

Originally Posted by 05 Busa LE

Oh, and I don't need to know that we're spending money we don't have (i.e., the Ten Billion Dollars a month).

Not saying you are wrong, but:
1. Credible source link to $10,000,000,000 month.

2. How much do you thing it will cost to logistically go back over after removing ourselves?

Iran with nukes is OK with you? No, so what happens when they obtain what they are currently striving for?

What happens if Russia invades a NATO country like Turkey? Do we just sit on our @sses?

[BIKE DUDE]

I', very skeptical and in my eyes he has a lot to prove to me. Let's hope he comes close

[05 Busa LE]

Originally Posted by Over_Easy

[i]f you are going to tell me something along the lines of Obama will stomp out terrorism because he said so during his campaign you can save your fingers. I believe he will fight terrorism but not efficiently or in the fashion I desire (see boot heel to the head as opposed to kill with kindess). I've heard all his talking points and they're all the same for every candidate, but his methods of achieving these results is what I object to.

I appreciate your candor and respect for my position, and I respect your decision to vote for whom you believed was the better candidate.

Since I'm not Barack Obama or Joe Biden, I can't guarantee that they will actually perform their "talking points," but I have faith that they will honestly try to do so. (And if I recall correctly, the talking points were quite different for Obama and McCain.)

Speaking of "boot-heel-to-head" enforcement, I'm all for it when diplomacy fails and we need to protect our children and our Country. Like JFK in 1963.

[05 Busa LE]

Originally Posted by Over_Easy

Not saying you are wrong, but:
1. Credible source link to $10,000,000,000 month.

2. How much do you thing it will cost to logistically go back over after removing ourselves?

Iran with nukes is OK with you? No, so what happens when they obtain what they are currently striving for?

What happens if Russia invades a NATO country like Turkey? Do we just sit on our @sses?

1. Congressional Budget Office (cbo.gov). Search "Defense" and add up all the appropriations. Or if you trust a particular news organization that has already done the search, do a search on their website, but make sure they cite the CBO.

2. I don't claim to be a military strategist. So, I'd guess you'd either maintain military bases inside Iraq, or continue to fight there and in Afghanistan as Cheney (actually, it was Tenet) originally planned: on "The Dark Side" (check out the documentary by the same name on PBS.org).

3. Of course not. And Israel already figured this one out. We call them Special and Black Ops.

4. Incirlik Air Base (US), Turkey.

[05 Busa LE]

Originally Posted by Over_Easy

Why don't you investigate as to how in Obama's name he will be able to complete all this. I'll tell you...tax the living daylights out of all the hard working earners and pay for all his big government BS programs and handout breaks to bums who don't pay taxes.

I tried to explain that I have read Obama's plan, but the best way to explain it is with his own summaries on his website. I promise you that if you visit his website, you can read the highlights that I pasted here, or you can read the full plan for each item, like I did.

Did I study the budget and calculate whether it's all feasible under his tax plan? Of course not--I only have about 18 hours in a day to work and a little to chill, so, yes, some of it is on faith. Just like I hope I wake up tomorrow.

[thrasherfox]

Yeah, well book mark my following statement.

If Obama pulls our troops out now I predict the following.


The last 500 troops or so left on the ground will be attacked by insurgents. It will be there going away gift to us.

Iran will roll in and take over Iraq.

Once Iran has taken over Iraq they will roll into Kuwait and take over Kuwait.

We have a relationship with Kuwait. Kuwait will expect us to bail them out, again (which by the way did I mention the only fricken reason why we are in Iraq right now for the most part is because we tried to protect Kuwait the first time. If we hadn't gone in and kicked Iraq out and pissed off Saddam, he wouldnt have grown such a hatred for us that made him the threat to us he became) So I kind of blame Kuwait partially for us being over there. Well anyway, once Iran takes over Iraq, and rolls into Kuwait, yeah, nothing we will be able to do. Kuwait will be on their own.

Then when the world sees that the mighty United States cannot protect a country they have a relationship with, any alliance with the United States will be useless.

they (Iran) will effectively take control over that region with no hope of us regaining control.

Iran will have offensive nuclear capabilities within the next 2 years, probably in the next year.

Sure, Obama has said he wants to have talks with Iran, one problem however.

We are allies, even so called big brother to Israel. Iran is set on destroying Israel, they will never deviate from that desire.

Obama and congress will have one of two choices, continue to support Israel, in which case talks will eventually break down between the then Obama led United States. And Iran will continue to do what they wish and will continue to be a growing threat in the region (read into this eventual threat to us).

Or Obama can turn his back on Israel. Which I don't see that idea being backed by congress. If it is and we ever turn our back on Israel may the Lord have mercy on us.

In the end if the United States is not eventually wiped out, all of our children can look forward to either them, or their kids having to go back to the middle east again because we didn't finish the job right the first OR second time. That is unless we become a third world country. At which point we will no longer be a threat to anyone and we will become just a history book lesson for the rest of the world as to what not to do when running a country.

I can say I really really hope my predictions are wrong.

But seriously, no one can say these predictions are wrong or right. we will all have to wait and see.

[Team B&T]

what i dont understand is that even with all of the unanswered questions about obama and all of the negative facts concerning his character you would think that the american people would step back, take a deep breath and really think about whether or not this person would have a positive impact on our country. He has already been confirmed to associate with terrorist. He is of islamic faith and NOONE can find his %^&*ing birth certificate, his closest relative is an illegal alien, i mean come on WTF!!!

[thrasherfox]

Originally Posted by Team B&T

what i dont understand is that even with all of the unanswered questions about obama and all of the negative facts concerning his character you would think that the american people would step back, take a deep breath and really think about whether or not this person would have a positive impact on our country. He has already been confirmed to associate with terrorist. He is of islamic faith and NOONE can find his %^&*ing birth certificate, his closest relative is an illegal alien, i mean come on WTF!!!

I think the bottom line is people are so desperate for change they are closing their eyes and ears to alot of stuff.

And it really didnt help that McCain was the best the republican party had to offer.

People are fed up, people havent liked the last 4 years (people are saying 8 but it really has been only the last 4)

And people are getting lazy in the United States.

When 9/11 happened the United States stood together, President Bush set the best course he could, and the people were behind him. He said from day one it was going to be a long war, and the people were behind him

he said we would have to make sacrifices, and the people were behind him

But as always with the United States, at least more and more, we Americans are lazy and we don't have the stomach for a protracted war.

Our enemies had, have and are counting on that. And if we pull out or Iraq too soon, we will show the world that we don't have the stomach to finish what we started.

Our financial crisis isn't due only to the war. yes we are dumping huge amounts of money in to it.

But right now the financial crisis that is hitting each American where it hurts is the Mortgage crisis which was due to the democrats, and the oil issues which I blame on our entire government. I am convinced our oil prices sky rocketed because of oil speculation, the government could have controlled it I feel, but they didnt. and that is the fault of the Republicans and Democrats.

President Bush didn't force us into this war, people are fricken idiots to think he did. and anyone who blames President Bush for the war is fricken stupid and looking for someone to blame.

The United States president has full control over only one of the services. The United States Marine Corps. The Marines are called the Presidents own.

the president can send Marines anywhere he wants without approval from anyone.

But other than that, it requires approval from Congress to send any of the other services into combat.

Guess what? Marines are not the only ones in the sand boxes. Congress approved the war. If they didn't want it we wouldn't be in it no matter how bad the president wanted us to be in it.

President Bush set the best course he could, he did the best he could with the cards he was dealt. I don't think anyone else under similar circumstance could have done much better.

And he is getting a largly unfair rap from it. He is human, I have no doubt he made mistakes.

But as I said, bottom line, American people don't have the stomach for anything that puts them out for very long. The American people were desperate for change, they didn't see change with the republicans and the only option left was the Democrats.

And truth be known, I think a lot of blacks voted for Obama just because he was black. And honestly, I cant really say I blame anyone who did.

black people have had a rough time in this country. been a long road for them. I have tried to do some soul searching on the issue, tried to put myself in a black persons shoes, and I think I came to the conclusion that as long as the candidate didn't seem evil incarnate, I would almost feel it was my obligation to vote for the first black person to run for president.

And especially Obama, no matter how much I didn't want him in office, I do acknowledge he is very Charismatic, he does seem extremely confident and will probably be a very strong leader.

Unfortunately I "think" he might lead us down a road that I dont think will be best for our country at this time. But as I have stated in other posts I am going to support him until if and when I think he is proving to make some bad decisions for this country. but until then, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and hope for the best.

I was talking to someone at work about the whole issue and I agree with another thing, our status in the world isn't very good right now. and between Obama and McCain, I think Obama has a better chance of trying to rebuild some of the bridges we either accidentally set on fire or purposely set on fire.

Hopefully he will be able to mend some of our tattered foreign relationships. Because I don't think another republican in office right now would have much of a chance.

We all just have to keep our fingers crossed, for those that pray, they need to pray. and ALL of us need to stick together All races, because we are Americans first. and we need to support our leadership the best we can.

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

Originally Posted by thrasherfox

Yeah, well book mark my following statement.

If Obama pulls our troops out now I predict the following.


The last 500 troops or so left on the ground will be attacked by insurgents. It will be there going away gift to us.

Iran will roll in and take over Iraq.

Once Iran has taken over Iraq they will roll into Kuwait and take over Kuwait.

We have a relationship with Kuwait. Kuwait will expect us to bail them out, again (which by the way did I mention the only fricken reason why we are in Iraq right now for the most part is because we tried to protect Kuwait the first time. If we hadn't gone in and kicked Iraq out and pissed off Saddam, he wouldnt have grown such a hatred for us that made him the threat to us he became) So I kind of blame Kuwait partially for us being over there. Well anyway, once Iran takes over Iraq, and rolls into Kuwait, yeah, nothing we will be able to do. Kuwait will be on their own.

Then when the world sees that the mighty United States cannot protect a country they have a relationship with, any alliance with the United States will be useless.

they (Iran) will effectively take control over that region with no hope of us regaining control.

Iran will have offensive nuclear capabilities within the next 2 years, probably in the next year.

Sure, Obama has said he wants to have talks with Iran, one problem however.

We are allies, even so called big brother to Israel. Iran is set on destroying Israel, they will never deviate from that desire.

Obama and congress will have one of two choices, continue to support Israel, in which case talks will eventually break down between the then Obama led United States. And Iran will continue to do what they wish and will continue to be a growing threat in the region (read into this eventual threat to us).

Or Obama can turn his back on Israel. Which I don't see that idea being backed by congress. If it is and we ever turn our back on Israel may the Lord have mercy on us.

In the end if the United States is not eventually wiped out, all of our children can look forward to either them, or their kids having to go back to the middle east again because we didn't finish the job right the first OR second time. That is unless we become a third world country. At which point we will no longer be a threat to anyone and we will become just a history book lesson for the rest of the world as to what not to do when running a country.

I can say I really really hope my predictions are wrong.

But seriously, no one can say these predictions are wrong or right. we will all have to wait and see.

VERY WELL PUT, SCARY AS HE!!, but VERY TRUE! Its sad that some folks just are not smart enough to see ALL the short commings and empty promises of obama. People got so wraped up in the "SMOKE & MIRROR" show and anti bush band wagon, that they just plain did NOT look deep enough. I for one hope.....NO, I PRAY THERE RIGHT for our children's sake, BUT I FEAR THERE NOT!

[CBXRider]

Mental illness seems rampant around here.

[Busa Jules]

Originally Posted by 99'busa

I've seen some of the most foolish and clueless people lining up to go vote for the FIRST time.

I find the "let's go change the world" comment pretty interesting to say the least.

I'm with you Jules.

Glad to see someone following me.... HE'S THE ANTICHRIST!!! (maybe)

[Red05]

Originally Posted by CBXRider

Mental illness seems rampant around here.

HE'S THE ANTICHRIST!!! (maybe)

No kidding, CBX.....

[Busa Jules]

hey I'm a TEACHER.... waddya expect?

(really that is what half of my student population is telling me... the other half keeps running up to me and saying "booyaa... how ya like that".. I'm not usre what they are talking about )

[Red05]

Originally Posted by busa jules

hey i'm a teacher.... Waddya expect?

(really that is what half of my student population is telling me... The other half keeps running up to me and saying "booyaa... How ya like that".. I'm not usre what they are talking about )

lol

[99'busa]

Originally Posted by Busa Jules

hey I'm a TEACHER.... waddya expect?

(really that is what half of my student population is telling me... the other half keeps running up to me and saying "booyaa... how ya like that".. I'm not usre what they are talking about )