What do YOU like or dislike about govt. healthcare?

[99'busa]

For me what I see happening is it being a great deal for some people and a death sentence to others. Here's what I mean: When something is FREE there becomes unlimited demand. We will have unlimited demand but limited budget. So SOMEONE is going to have to be denied due to funding.


I believe our current healthcare plan can become more affordable with some changes but they wont be easy changes for some. IE no more 0 deductibles, limited visits, common check ups not covered, physicals not covered. ect....Some people are paying for coverage that they will never need such as substance abuse. The mojority of people are paying for stuff they likely wont ever use.


So I'm interested in hearing POS and NEG so maybe all of us can collectivley learn more about this.

[Dino]

What you are missing is check-ups and physicals are cheaper than treating serious disease. So by making these more available you save money because you catch serious disease sooner and treat it earlier\cheaper.

[99'busa]

Yes some people can't afford healthcare but there is already govt assistance for them and that could use some adjusting too.

[99'busa]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

What you are missing is check-ups and physicals are cheaper than treating serious disease. So by making these more available you save money because you catch serious disease sooner and treat it earlier\cheaper.

I agree with you on this. I should clarify cause I was referring to sport physicals

[Dino]

Originally Posted by 99'busa

Yes some people can't afford healthcare but there is already govt assistance for them and that could use some adjusting too.

If that were true then there would not be so many falling through the cracks.

[Dino]

Originally Posted by 99'busa

I agree with you on this. I should clarify cause I was referring to sport physicals

I think you are being too specific.

[Rev. 6:5]

I'm not a socialist. Just the opposite, I'm a strong conservative. However, universal healthcare is affordable and can be done with sin taxes. Where do all the alcohol and tobacco taxes go? They go into general funds that pay for God only knows what. Why not redirect those taxes to where they wholly pay for healthcare? Alcohol and tobacco cause so many chronic illnesses that I feel they should be able to pay for themselves.

[Mellow77]

Originally Posted by 99'busa

I agree with you on this. I should clarify cause I was referring to sport physicals

Hmmm, I'm not quite sure how limiting the discussion to just sports physicals is relavent to the broad subject of govt. healthcare.

[Dino]

Originally Posted by 99'busa

For me what I see happening is it being a great deal for some people and a death sentence to others. Here's what I mean: When something is FREE there becomes unlimited demand. We will have unlimited demand but limited budget. So SOMEONE is going to have to be denied due to funding.


I believe our current healthcare plan can become more affordable with some changes but they wont be easy changes for some. IE no more 0 deductibles, limited visits, common check ups not covered, physicals not covered. ect....Some people are paying for coverage that they will never need such as substance abuse. The mojority of people are paying for stuff they likely wont ever use.


So I'm interested in hearing POS and NEG so maybe all of us can collectivley learn more about this.

I am not sure how to answer your question but I think we should take a hard look at the best of universal health care systems (France, Germany, Sweden, England, and others) and see if we can improve upon them or at least look to mitigate where they are weak.

[Mellow77]

As for overall healthcare, I would agree that a lot of folks are paying for numerous "benefits" they'll never receive or need. I'm in that boat today. The thousands of dollars I spend to have healthcare seems ridiculous. I guess the only semi-consolation (albeit crappy) is that if something BIG happened I wouldn't be denied treatment.

[dadofthree]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

If that were true then there would not be so many falling through the cracks.

Who's falling through the cracks friend ? Quote your source.

[Dino]

Originally Posted by dadofthree

Who's falling through the cracks friend ? Quote your source.

PBS- Healthcare Crisis: The Uninsured


"The people who are most at risk today are those who have no health insurance at all. They're at risk of not getting regular care when they need it. They're at risk of not catching real problems before they get serious enough to not be treatable. They're at risk of not getting the best treatment when they actually do get sick. And they're at tremendous financial risk. They could lose everything that they've saved in their lives because of some even fairly minor health problem."

--Sherry Glied, PhD, Associate Professor of Public Health, Columbia University


"But for the 40 million uninsured, we have brutal rationing by price and their income. And I sometimes resent politicians or smug economists who say, "We can avoid rationing through the market, through the price system." That is so patently false, you would box the ear of a freshman in Congress for ever saying that, and here, you have grown-up politicians saying it. Markets ration. They ration by price and income. If you're a waitress, uninsured, and your child has an ear ache and you can not afford to go to a doctor, you have been rationed out of the system. And I'm appalled that there are politicians who can not understand this."

-- Uwe Reinhardt, PhD, Professor of Political Economy, Princeton University

[dadofthree]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

I am not sure how to answer your question but I think we should take a hard look at the best of universal health care systems (France, Germany, Sweden, England, and others) and see if we can improve upon them or at least look to mitigate where they are weak.

Haven't looked at them since the Clinton years, oh wait, they're back. These systems have failed miserably according to network news. So if ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN didn't like them they must have been pretty bad.

[Dino]

Originally Posted by dadofthree

Haven't looked at them since the Clinton years, oh wait, they're back. These systems have failed miserably according to network news. So if ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN didn't like them they must have been pretty bad.

Now you just asked me to provide a source and then you come back with some extremely general comment, come on now be better than Fox.

Failed how?

If they failed why are their Health Care systems all better than ours according to the World Health Organization?

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html


AND they all have a lower infant mortality rate. Cuba even has fewer infants die than the US.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2091rank.html

They must be doing something right.

[dadofthree]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

PBS- Healthcare Crisis: The Uninsured


"The people who are most at risk today are those who have no health insurance at all. They're at risk of not getting regular care when they need it. They're at risk of not catching real problems before they get serious enough to not be treatable. They're at risk of not getting the best treatment when they actually do get sick. And they're at tremendous financial risk. They could lose everything that they've saved in their lives because of some even fairly minor health problem."

--Sherry Glied, PhD, Associate Professor of Public Health, Columbia University


"But for the 40 million uninsured, we have brutal rationing by price and their income. And I sometimes resent politicians or smug economists who say, "We can avoid rationing through the market, through the price system." That is so patently false, you would box the ear of a freshman in Congress for ever saying that, and here, you have grown-up politicians saying it. Markets ration. They ration by price and income. If you're a waitress, uninsured, and your child has an ear ache and you can not afford to go to a doctor, you have been rationed out of the system. And I'm appalled that there are politicians who can not understand this."

-- Uwe Reinhardt, PhD, Professor of Political Economy, Princeton University

Alright PBS, the most liberal news source in the country. A waitress, uninsured, and a child with a ear ache goes straight to the ER and receives treatment under medicade / medicare.

These statements are personal and have little to do with the truth.

I will agree that it is the most expensive way to take care of the problem. Most of the 40 million called out if true are young people who are healthy and are self employed or opt not to pay for healthcare through their employers because of the cost and to a big part because they don't need healthcare.

The rest are those who are here illegally, or are covered through a government benefit. Those who don't work or earn a limited income or those who are retired.

This debate needs to be a serious debate and I agree, unless something drastic has changed over the past decade with the socialist models mentioned, most people with common sense wouldn't opt for limited healthcare. As in we're sorry you're perishing because of a disease but given your age, etc. we can't help you.

No, I don't have any letters after my name.

[Dino]

Originally Posted by dadofthree

Alright PBS, the most liberal news source in the country. A waitress, uninsured, and a child with a ear ache goes straight to the ER and receives treatment under medicade / medicare.

These statements are personal and have little to do with the truth.

I will agree that it is the most expensive way to take care of the problem. Most of the 40 million called out if true are young people who are healthy and are self employed or opt not to pay for healthcare through their employers because of the cost and to a big part because they don't need healthcare.

The rest are those who are here illegally, or are covered through a government benefit. Those who don't work or earn a limited income or those who are retired.

This debate needs to be a serious debate and I agree, unless something drastic has changed over the past decade with the socialist models mentioned, most people with common sense wouldn't opt for limited healthcare. As in we're sorry you're perishing because of a disease but given your age, etc. we can't help you.

No, I don't have any letters after my name.

What truth are you talking about? Are you saying that the 40million uninsured people out there don't face the same issues? Why should they be forced to wait until there are so sick they have to go to the emergency room?

How about telling me how those countries I mentioned "failed"?

[BUSAGO1979]

The major problem with Healthcare in the US is that it is a for profit business as opposed to the service industry its supposed to be...

I grew up in Canada under a Universal Healthcare program and can speak first hand to the quality of care received and the lack of bills to pay after my visit.

I still get a lot of my long term medications that I am on from Canadian Pharmacies due to the rediculous cost of perscription drugs in the US, under my UHC healthcare plan.

The Pharmaceutical Corporations are making Millions of dollars in profits each year of all the perscription medications they sell.

Their is a price to have Universal Healthcare and in Canada that price on average is about a 7% higher tax than what the Average American pays on everything they purchase...You go to a store in the US and buy something you pay an average of around 8%...(Dont quote this numbers as 100%...Im guessing based off taxes in MO)
Across Canada you have a PST and a GST averaging out to around 15% tax on everything you purchase...

Its this very tax that is how the Universal Healthcare system is paid for...Also Canadian Doctors do not make the high 6 digit incomes that some of the Doctors and Surgeons make here in the USA...

Take profit out of the Healthcare industry and make it a Service Oriented Business and maybe, just maybe it can be usefull in this country.

But I dont see this every suceeding because the American Business Model will never let this happen...

The last remaining point is a question of population...

California has a higher population than all of Canada combined...Perhaps we should look at State ran Healthcare programs instead of a Universal Healthcare system across the USA...That may have a chance to be slightly more likely of achieving sucess...

[Dino]

Originally Posted by BUSAGO1979

The major problem with Healthcare in the US is that it is a for profit business as opposed to the service industry its supposed to be...

I grew up in Canada under a Universal Healthcare program and can speak first hand to the quality of care received and the lack of bills to pay after my visit.

I still get a lot of my long term medications that I am on from Canadian Pharmacies due to the rediculous cost of perscription drugs in the US, under my UHC healthcare plan.

The Pharmaceutical Corporations are making Millions of dollars in profits each year of all the perscription medications they sell.

Their is a price to have Universal Healthcare and in Canada that price on average is about a 7% higher tax than what the Average American pays on everything they purchase...You go to a store in the US and buy something you pay an average of around 8%...(Dont quote this numbers as 100%...Im guessing based off taxes in MO)
Across Canada you have a PST and a GST averaging out to around 15% tax on everything you purchase...

Its this very tax that is how the Universal Healthcare system is paid for...Also Canadian Doctors do not make the high 6 digit incomes that some of the Doctors and Surgeons make here in the USA...

Take profit out of the Healthcare industry and make it a Service Oriented Business and maybe, just maybe it can be usefull in this country.

But I dont see this every suceeding because the American Business Model will never let this happen...

The last remaining point is a question of population...

California has a higher population than all of Canada combined...Perhaps we should look at State ran Healthcare programs instead of a Universal Healthcare system across the USA...That may have a chance to be slightly more likely of achieving sucess...

"Take profit out of the Healthcare industry and make it a Service Oriented Business and maybe, just maybe it can be usefull in this country." 100% agree

[BUSAGO1979]

Originally Posted by dadofthree

Haven't looked at them since the Clinton years, oh wait, they're back. These systems have failed miserably according to network news. So if ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN didn't like them they must have been pretty bad.

This is all part of the American agenda to tell you lies so that you do not see the reality behind organized social healthcare programs...All of these sytems do function at very high levels..They are in many ways far superior to the methods of the US healthcare systems...

The reason they are called failures by the US news sources is their lacking of Billion dollar profits...

[Mellow77]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

"Take profit out of the Healthcare industry and make it a Service Oriented Business and maybe, just maybe it can be usefull in this country." 100% agree

I conceptually agree with this as well. I just wonder how many of the "leading" surgeons we would no longer have access to. If you take away their unlimited earnings potential I wonder if they'd just pack up their sh*t and go someplace that will pay top dollar.