What do YOU like or dislike about govt. healthcare?

[BUSAGO1979]

Originally Posted by Mellow77

I conceptually agree with this as well. I just wonder how many of the "leading" surgeons we would no longer have access to. If you take away their unlimited earnings potential I wonder if they'd just pack up their sh*t and go someplace that will pay top dollar.

Very Good Point...It seems that Surgeons, atleast the VERY BEST Surgeons seem to be pretty huge humanitarians...they travel all over the world performing amazing surgeries often for free or on their own dimes...

I think where we would see issues is in the Elective Surgery fields...Plastic Surgeries, Cosmetic Surgeries...Etc...

[99'busa]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

If that were true then there would not be so many falling through the cracks.

No matter what system we have there will always be cracks. But I can't think of a scinario with our current system that someone doesn't at least have access to healthcare if they just look for it.

[99'busa]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

PBS- Healthcare Crisis: The Uninsured


If you're a waitress, uninsured, and your child has an ear ache and you can not afford to go to a doctor, you have been rationed out of the system. And I'm appalled that there are politicians who can not understand this."

-- Uwe Reinhardt, PhD, Professor of Political Economy, Princeton University

How does she not have it. If she's a waitress than she'll qualify for assistance. Especially with kids. This author sounds biased.

[si-lo]

I just look at how the government runs everything else and how messed up it is. The education system is awful they have bankrupted Social Security, not too mention the how they screw up the medical care they do control already, ie military.

So should the gov manage healthcare? Absolutely not!

[Dino]

Originally Posted by 99'busa

No matter what system we have there will always be cracks. But I can't think of a scinario with our current system that someone doesn't at least have access to healthcare if they just look for it.

I suppose in an emergency but I think we as a nation are better than that. We certainly have the potential to be better than 37th in the world.

[Lycan]

WSBK baby!

[Dino]

Originally Posted by si-lo

I just look at how the government runs everything else and how messed up it is. The education system is awful they have bankrupted Social Security, not too mention the how they screw up the medical care they do control already, ie military.

So should the gov manage healthcare? Absolutely not!

How is military health care messed up? The care I received was cutting edge and I just had a minor injury?

Education is run by the individual states, even lower to counties really so it is tough to blame the federal government for this one.

[99'busa]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

What truth are you talking about? Are you saying that the 40million uninsured people out there don't face the same issues? Why should they be forced to wait until there are so sick they have to go to the emergency room?

How about telling me how those countries I mentioned "failed"?

I agree the 40 million is not completely accurate. Meaning it doesn't tell you that some of them don't have it because they choose not to not because they are denied.

[Dino]

Originally Posted by 99'busa

I agree the 40 million is not completely accurate. Meaning it doesn't tell you that some of them don't have it because they choose not to not because they are denied.

What is your point?

You are talking a small fraction when you talk about those that may have choosen not to carry it, but if they did it because it was too expensive then they are in just as bad a shape. As for being denied, that should never happen.

[Red05]

Originally Posted by 99'busa

For me what I see happening is it being a great deal for some people and a death sentence to others. Here's what I mean: When something is FREE there becomes unlimited demand. We will have unlimited demand but limited budget. So SOMEONE is going to have to be denied due to funding.


I believe our current healthcare plan can become more affordable with some changes but they wont be easy changes for some. IE no more 0 deductibles, limited visits, common check ups not covered, physicals not covered. ect....Some people are paying for coverage that they will never need such as substance abuse. The mojority of people are paying for stuff they likely wont ever use.


So I'm interested in hearing POS and NEG so maybe all of us can collectivley learn more about this.

My version of a healthplan would not be free. Everyone would pay, much like Social Security, with those found to be healthy would be favored with lower rates. Federally mandated and non-profit, I'm sure there would be problems but can it possibly be worse than it is now? I can hear most of the members here shout a synchronized YES!!!

[99'busa]

[quote=BUSAGO1979;1912846]The major problem with Healthcare in the US is that it is a for profit business as opposed to the service industry its supposed to be... which makes me wonder if the service is better coming from someone who stands to make more money if their patients are happy.

I grew up in Canada under a Universal Healthcare program and can speak first hand to the quality of care received and the lack of bills to pay after my visit. This is the POS feedback I'm looking for. I've heard from others in Canada that have mentioned the samething. But do they outweight the NEG?

I still get a lot of my long term medications that I am on from Canadian Pharmacies due to the rediculous cost of perscription drugs in the US, under my UHC healthcare plan.

The Pharmaceutical Corporations are making Millions of dollars in profits each year of all the perscription medications they sell. Which in their defense (not that I like paying it) drives for more cures.

Their is a price to have Universal Healthcare and in Canada that price on average is about a 7% higher tax than what the Average American pays on everything they purchase...You go to a store in the US and buy something you pay an average of around 8%...(Dont quote this numbers as 100%...Im guessing based off taxes in MO)
Across Canada you have a PST and a GST averaging out to around 15% tax on everything you purchase...

Its this very tax that is how the Universal Healthcare system is paid for...Also Canadian Doctors do not make the high 6 digit incomes that some of the Doctors and Surgeons make here in the USA... I dont know if I agree with that. I think I'd rather have them compenstated well for many reasons.

Take profit out of the Healthcare industry and make it a Service Oriented Business and maybe, just maybe it can be usefull in this country. In my experience profit oriented businesses give you better service. Look at the BMV

But I dont see this every suceeding because the American Business Model will never let this happen...

The last remaining point is a question of population...

California has a higher population than all of Canada combined...Perhaps we should look at State ran Healthcare programs instead of a Universal Healthcare system across the USA...That may have a chance to be slightly more likely of achieving sucess..That doesn't sound like a bad idea.[/quote]

Appreciate your input

[99'busa]

Originally Posted by Mellow77

I conceptually agree with this as well. I just wonder how many of the "leading" surgeons we would no longer have access to. If you take away their unlimited earnings potential I wonder if they'd just pack up their sh*t and go someplace that will pay top dollar.

This was part of my point to why I would continue to see them compensated WELL.

[99'busa]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

What is your point?

You are talking a small fraction when you talk about those that may have choosen not to carry it, but if they did it because it was too expensive then they are in just as bad a shape. As for being denied, that should never happen.

My point is its a large number thrown out there for shock. If people are poor they have medicaid and if they are old they have medicare. The ones that dont have it are either rich so they dont need it, self employed and just dont make it a priority, or just choose to opt out to save a few bucks out of their paychk.

[99'busa]

Originally Posted by Red05

My version of a healthplan would not be free. Everyone would pay, much like Social Security, with those found to be healthy would be favored with lower rates. Federally mandated and non-profit, I'm sure there would be problems but can it possibly be worse than it is now? I can hear most of the members here shout a synchronized YES!!!

I think your on a good track for me.

[Dino]

[quote=99'busa;1912966]

Originally Posted by BUSAGO1979

The major problem with Healthcare in the US is that it is a for profit business as opposed to the service industry its supposed to be... which makes me wonder if the service is better coming from someone who stands to make more money if their patients are happy. That statistics say that higher pay does not equal better service, Canada ranks higher than the US in health care.
I grew up in Canada under a Universal Healthcare program and can speak first hand to the quality of care received and the lack of bills to pay after my visit. This is the POS feedback I'm looking for. I've heard from others in Canada that have mentioned the samething. But do they outweight the NEG? What negative?

I still get a lot of my long term medications that I am on from Canadian Pharmacies due to the rediculous cost of perscription drugs in the US, under my UHC healthcare plan.

The Pharmaceutical Corporations are making Millions of dollars in profits each year of all the perscription medications they sell. Which in their defense (not that I like paying it) drives for more cures. You sure? A cure would be the worst thing they could do. Once you cure it no one needs your drugs, right?
Their is a price to have Universal Healthcare and in Canada that price on average is about a 7% higher tax than what the Average American pays on everything they purchase...You go to a store in the US and buy something you pay an average of around 8%...(Dont quote this numbers as 100%...Im guessing based off taxes in MO)
Across Canada you have a PST and a GST averaging out to around 15% tax on everything you purchase...

Its this very tax that is how the Universal Healthcare system is paid for...Also Canadian Doctors do not make the high 6 digit incomes that some of the Doctors and Surgeons make here in the USA... I dont know if I agree with that. I think I'd rather have them compenstated well for many reasons. Why? We are lower ranked and have higher paid doctors, how do you figure that?
Take profit out of the Healthcare industry and make it a Service Oriented Business and maybe, just maybe it can be usefull in this country. In my experience profit oriented businesses give you better service. Look at the BMV Only those that can afford it get better service, that may be fine for cars but not peoples health.
But I dont see this every suceeding because the American Business Model will never let this happen...

The last remaining point is a question of population...

California has a higher population than all of Canada combined...Perhaps we should look at State ran Healthcare programs instead of a Universal Healthcare system across the USA...That may have a chance to be slightly more likely of achieving sucess..That doesn't sound like a bad idea.[/quote] Except that you will have population shifts to better services.
Appreciate your input

Good inputs and thoughts

[99'busa]

Could there be a hybrid version somehow?

[rockadaous]

I've had free health care for the past 20 yrs.
Likes-free
dislikes-waiting! especially emergency room. PA's that don't have a clue. The thought motrin fixes everything

[Dino]

Originally Posted by 99'busa

Could there be a hybrid version somehow?

That is what I was suggesting by taking a look at the good ones. These are the ones I was told failed but they are still better at providing care than what we have here in the US. Look at the best practices and adapt them to our needs.

However it will probably not work if you try to make it a competitive for profit system.

[99'busa]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

That is what I was suggesting by taking a look at the good ones. These are the ones I was told failed but they are still better at providing care than what we have here in the US. Look at the best practices and adapt them to our needs.

However it will probably not work if you try to make it a competitive for profit system.

I've always lived by the moto if you want to achieve something than look at who has already done and learn from their mistakes not yours.

This is my whole point to this thread is to hear the likes and dislikes and hope that we can get some feedback from those playing in the greener grass and see if it's really all that green. I'm afraid it wont be so easy to reverse this in the future.

[Dino]

Originally Posted by 99'busa

I've always lived by the moto if you want to achieve something than look at who has already done and learn from their mistakes not yours.

This is my whole point to this thread is to hear the likes and dislikes and hope that we can get some feedback from those playing in the greener grass and see if it's really all that green. I'm afraid it wont be so easy to reverse this in the future.

Amen....

This is a good discussion. Thanks for starting it.