Haya v ZX12 (for a "fatty"/"lanky" !) ??

[XXX-Large]

[NB. posted EXACTLY same thread on ZX12.org..... I want
BOTH sides ! !]

STUPID asking you boyz, I KNOW ! !
but,
I've shied away from buying these babies for several years now....
I've had a ZZR11 D4 from new and a Bandit12 for ~4 years now.

The ZZ is OK but needs 'winding-up' (?) 'specially wiv my 18stone on ! !
The Bandit on the other hand needs NO winding ! ! It just GOES.

I'll soon have ~£5,000 cash coming (hopefully!) and will be 'parting' the
ZZR in for a ZX12 or a Haya'...

The things niggling are:
1] which best suits 6'3"/18stone ?
2] Hayabugly screen 'problem' ? (how bad ?)
3] Hayabugly 'cracking frame problem' ? (solved?/true?)
4] ZX12 'clutch problem' ? (WAS it ever 'Kawa'-solved ?)
5] and, just recently, Hayabugly 'snapping chain problem' ? (DOES it ?)
6] Is ZX12 REALLY that much worse on go-juice ? (or just same as Haya' ?)

I know it's hard for you to be UNBIASED !!!! but any OBJECTIVE
comments ??

(ps. I've had GPZ1100 and ZZR11 C previously and loved both but
Bandit has REALLY impressed with it's torque !!.................)

Thanks boyz (& girls ??)

XXX-Large.

[MET]

Not hard at all. Buy the one the best fits you. I did not buy a zx12 a while back because I did not like the way it handled for ME. Then decide how what type of riding you are going to do and how far you what to mod the bike after a while. Both are good bikes top of the line. The hayabusa is fa better for extreme mods and performance. Again try them both out you will make up your mind based on that alone I am sure.

[mctrull]

The screen is a minor inconvenience for taller riders, easily changed. It is just a matter of adjusting the bike to suit the individual rider, of which, I can honestly say the busa does quite easily.
The frame problem was resolved. They quit using Aluminum in that area and started using steel, no more breaks.
The chain does not break unless heavily abused. I am switching my chain but, it is because I have done modifications to the engine to increase the amount of torque and horsepower. My factory chain is still in top shape.
The busa's frame is a little longer and should be more comfortable to you.
As far as fuel usage, I do not know, compare the specs (mpg) on both and that will tell you. The clutch problem on Kawa; I have not heard if it truely solved.
I personally like the busa over the kawa for several reasons but, it is an overall culmination of my likes/dislikes that made me choose the busa. I did extensive research and footwork before I purchased mine and never felt like it was the wrong one. Good luck!

[XXX-Large]

SORRY.....

AND......

are these TRE thingies really any good ?? (as DELIMITERS !)

IF they are choosing ONE ECU 'map', is that OK for the engine ??

ie. it's not gonna do it any long-term harm running on one map ??

(well.. no more harm than doing 186 PLUS everywhere that is !! )

FatS.

[mctrull]

The TRE does not choose an ECU Map. It removes the timing retard that is on the first three gears and makes the computer think it is fifth when it is in sixth so that there is no rev limiter and you can exceed 186mph. The Power Commanders are the computers that you can add on that will allow you to reprogram your fuel maps.

[Revlis]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (mctrull @ Feb. 09 2004,08:55)]The TRE does not choose an ECU Map. It removes the timing retard that is on the first three gears and makes the computer think it is fifth when it is in sixth so that there is no rev limiter and you can exceed 186mph. The Power Commanders are the computers that you can add on that will allow you to reprogram your fuel maps.

Actualy your both right, the TRE fools the computer into thinking it is in 5th gear all the time. This is true, but what this does is effectively pin the fueling for fifth gear all the time eliminating the retard. It doesn't choose a map true but it forces your bike into thinking it only has 5th gear fueling.

Just makes me wonder, wouldn't this be bad for the bike? A switchable TRE is what my mechanic recommended, leave it off unless you are playing, especially during start up. Isn't the fueling based on RPM, throttle inputs, load and gear? Is fooling your ECU into thinking it's allways in fifth going to cause a rich condition at 55 in second under a moderate load? After all, there isn't much air being fed into the box right? So yeah this is why I am still TRE less...

If there is someone who really has a good answer I would love to hear it as well...

[Revlis]

I'll soon have ~£5,000 cash coming (hopefully!) and will be 'parting' the
ZZR in for a ZX12 or a Haya'...

The things niggling are:
1] which best suits 6'3"/18stone ? <span style='color:red'>----This is personal choice but I see a lot of Big Mo FO's on Busa's.</span>
2] Hayabugly screen 'problem' ? (how bad ?) *<span style='color:red'>----WTF is Hayabugly?? * Buy a Double Bubble....</span>
3] Hayabugly 'cracking frame problem' ? (solved?/true<span style='color:red'>?)-----Subframe replaced with steel in 01 I believe. *Prior to that you will want to have a look and there are reinforcements for the original ally sub as well for pre 01 Busa's *(Recommend post 01 Busa for 18 stone)</span>
4] ZX12 'clutch problem' ? (WAS it ever 'Kawa'-solved ?) <span style='color:red'>----No Idea.....</span>
5] and, just recently, Hayabugly 'snapping chain problem' ? <span style='color:red'>----This Hayabugly **** is getting tired.....(DOES it ?) ----Never heard of it with any regularity. *Lets talk going through rear tires though....</span>
6] Is ZX12 REALLY that much worse on go-juice ? (or just same as Haya' ?) <span style='color:red'>-----Pick your poison man, I say Busa Mill is the way to go if your going to be riding in the real world and want to build/mod the motor, from what I have seen and heard it is more tolerant of tinkering....</span>
I know it's hard for you to be UNBIASED !!!! but any OBJECTIVE
comments ?? <span style='color:red'>----OK Unbiased...That is funny, but I'll tell you this, everytime I pull up to a local biker hangout the Busa gets attention, it's instantly recognized as the worlds fastest, as the biggest displacement off the shelf sport bike, and it's looks (love or hate) set it appart from the crowd... *The 12R just sits there, pretty much invisible, nobody cares, and it's typical looks just get lost in the crowd. *Performance wise, it's still hard to say, depending on which magazine you read on which day, so call it neck and neck. *Though it is the world record holder and the ZX12 NEVER went faster than the original Busa. *Handling wise I will of course say Busa, low, stable, and and surprisingly nimble. *Kawi seems a bit top heavy, tall comes to mind... But I have only sat on them, never ridden. *</span>
(ps. I've had GPZ1100 and ZZR11 C previously and loved both but
Bandit has REALLY impressed with it's torque !!.................)

Thanks boyz (& girls ??)

XXX-Large.

<span style='color:red'>If you want Torque, and power everywhere, EVERYWHERE, the Busa is the only option, don't read anymore, don't listen to any more crapheads on web-boards, go ride both and find out on your own... *Though in London U.K. ....Good Luck securing insurance on either one....</span>

[XXX-Large]

I'm REALLY SORRY mates ! ! ! !

I cut/pasted it from the ZX board AFTER they'd screwed with it
(their posting system did 'that' to the message ! ! ! !)

I myself think the Haya looks SLIGHTLY less atractive than the ZX
BUT, I'm more interested in GO than SHOW ! !

It looks tidy enough for MY purpose ??

YES mate, insurance IS bad, but, I'm used to insuring me mkIV Supra TT ! ! !

so even the Haya' won't shock me TOO much (?!?)

Thanks for all/any input....... it's swaying quite firmly to the Haya' direction
at the mo'........................

FatS.

[XXX-Large]

.......and......

YES Mr "REVLIS" ! !

That's exactly what I was worried about.

I DON'T like the idea of a limiter, but, IS running on a permanent "5th-map"
gonna do any permanent damage ????

I presume someone has/WILL do dyno/emission tests with a TRE ON/OFF ?!?!?

That would (fairly well) prove it one way or the other. (not accounting for 'load'
obviously).

FatS.

[MET]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (XXX-Large @ Feb. 12 2004,02:29)].......and......

YES Mr "REVLIS" ! !

That's exactly what I was worried about.

I DON'T like the idea of a limiter, but, IS running on a permanent "5th-map"
gonna do any permanent damage ????

I presume someone has/WILL do dyno/emission tests with a TRE ON/OFF ?!?!?

That would (fairly well) prove it one way or the other. (not accounting for 'load'
obviously).

FatS.

I have never heard of the TRE hurting anything, plus it does not effect all gears only 5th gear. *If it bothers you there is a Simple fix-- wire in a switch to turn the TRE on and off. Only use the Tre when you want max velocity. *many riders do this for track reasons and idle difference.


Almost forgot many many dyno tests with the TRE on and off.



<!--EDIT|Ninja Eater
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[XXX-Large]

Almost forgot many many dyno tests with the TRE on and off.
[/quote]

I would "think" (?) just the once WITH emission readouts to
see if the 'lumps's running lean/rich etc with the TRE in

ie. a 'worse' power curve with it IN in the lower gears....or NOT.

[ I DUNNO.... I'm just a pescimist (sp?) BEFORE I've even
BOUGHT the thing ! ! - just can't see the point of Busa that's
LIMITED ..... I HATE LIMITERS ! ! ! !

IF I get a BUSA.... and IF i use a TRE.... and IF it hasn't been
tested by then....i would DEFINITELY get it R'Roaded for
peace of mind ?? ]

FatS.

[STUNNAH]

How much does 18 stones equate to in pds...Either bike is a good fit for a lard a$$...Looks like your stones are shifting toward the 12 and that's cools...A 12 will carry the stones with less speed restricted or not...

[XXX-Large]

14 Lbs to a Stone (in ENGLISH pounds that is....U.S. ?)

so, over HERE I'm ~252Lbs............

(goes up & down ALL THE TIME, depends on Big Breakfast
Burger intake rate each week )

FatS.

[grabntwist]

The Busa is way more bullet proof. And costs way less to mod for BIG hp. Seems like the 12r is already built to its limit and can't offer that much more with mods. Btw if the 12r was faster it would be in the Guiness world book of records every year since 99' rather than the Busa.

[XXX-Large]

As I asked in another thread......

is the limiter 186 INDICATED in U.S. ?

ie. ~170/175 TRUE ?

apparently it IS on UK spec. !?

Test on the limited ZX and Busa over 2 miles gave both
as 170/171 TRUE speed this month.
(although they didn't mention in the 'results' that it was
BECAUSE they were limited...just in the pre-amble and text.
Do you get a 'feel' at the limiter ? or just feels like it's
'topped-out' ?)

SO, I would HAVE TO use a TRE.... there's absolutely
NO WAY I'd buy either machine and be limited to 170 ! ! !

FatS.

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (XXX-Large @ Feb. 13 2004,23:39)]14 Lbs to a Stone (in ENGLISH pounds that is....U.S. ?)

so, over HERE I'm ~252Lbs............

(goes up & down ALL THE TIME, depends on Big Breakfast
Burger intake rate each week )

FatS.

So your really not a lard a$$ at all...Just a well proportioned man as I...

[STUNNAH]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (XXX-Large @ Feb. 14 2004,14:16)]As I asked in another thread......

is the limiter 186 INDICATED in U.S. ?

ie. ~170/175 TRUE ?

apparently it IS on UK spec. !?

Test on the limited ZX and Busa over 2 miles gave both
as 170/171 TRUE speed this month.
(although they didn't mention in the 'results' that it was
BECAUSE they were limited...just in the pre-amble and text.
Do you get a 'feel' at the limiter ? or just feels like it's
'topped-out' ?)

SO, I would HAVE TO use a TRE.... there's absolutely
NO WAY I'd buy either machine and be limited to 170 ! ! !

FatS.

What's the big deal with top endWhere in London will you be able to get the full potential of speed on a consistent basisThe Busa is in a league of it's on period...The 12 can't stand against it in design nor performance...I believe that a product similar to the TRE called a G-Pack made by Nikko is offered for both bikes...You and I are close to the same build I'm 6'2 @ 250pds and the Busa is a much better fit for me than the 12...I've rode them both and there was no doubt when I bought the Busa...

[XXX-Large]

STUNNAH..

they built a Circular 'track' just round the outskirts of London
SPECIALLY for ZX's and Busas ! ! !

...rather like one of those Particle Accelerators - you know,
you can just KEEP acelerating without EVER having to reach a junction ?!

............it's called the M25.

Seriously, I use my Supra mostly for Drag and 'Runway' events
and I WANT (NEED?) a bike for same.
('sides we're getting less and less Patrol Cops here and they're
relying on Fixed Cameras... ours are BRIGHT YELLOW and you
HAVE to be able to see 'em from miles away... !?!?!?
In a car they're a bloody nuisance having to slow/fast all the
time, but on a big bike..... they're like little 70-Rollons every
once in a while... just FUN ! ! )

FatS.

[XXX-Large]

....ps......

the only Fly-in-the-Ointment is the 'Plain-Car' patrols on some
Motorways now - every County uses different.
USE to be all same, ie. Dark Green Vauxhall Omegas etc.
(pointless...you could watch for 'em ??)
Now they use all sorts...

one county has several Scarlet Skoda Octavias ! ! !

......BUT... the RS ones ! ! (180hp, 150mph, 7.5secs -ish)


FatS.

[BLU88]

I AM 6'5 AND WEIGHED 245 WHEN I BOUGHT THE BUSA. I LOOKED AT BOTH AND LIKED HOW THE BUSA FIT ME BETTER. GOOD LUCK WITH UR DECISION.