Thinking about a Hayabusa as a first bike?

[rigdoctormark]

I am the proud owner of my first ever bike a 08 busa. Me personaly I didn't want to start out on a 600 and hate myself in a month for not going bigger. You can get killed on a skateboard if you ride it like a idiot. I had never ridden a motorcycle prior to getting my busa. I took the MSF class and I and very happy I did. I am also overjoyed that I started out on a busa. I was looking at a gixxer 1000 but if you can believe this my wife talked me into the busa and I am glad she did.

[daniusa46]

Hello all,
I'm a novice rider and new to the forum. I am considering the Busa as my first bike. I have taken the all the advice from these posts very seriously and am very aware that the Busa is over my head. However, the main reason for me to consider the Busa (besides looks and being awesome) is the fact that it is a bigger bike that looks more proportional to my size. I am 6'9" and 255 pounds and don't want to look like I'm ridding a scooter by getting a smaller bike.
Any advice for tall riders? I heard from a few people and dealers that the Busa is recommended to tall rider due to its bulk.
Anyway, I love the Busa and would love to have it as my first bike, but I'm not ready to kill myself just yet.
Can anyone recommend a bike that would fit my size and is not such a beast?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[rocketgeezer]

Haveing had more bikes than I can remember over the last 45 years, first dirtbike when I was 9, the Busa even in stock condition is a attitude adjuster, if you have not ridden a Busa before no matter how big you think your balls are, this bike will make them smaller, definatly not a good choice for a first bike

[Rev. 6:5]

Originally Posted by rigdoctormark

I am the proud owner of my first ever bike a 08 busa. Me personaly I didn't want to start out on a 600 and hate myself in a month for not going bigger. You can get killed on a skateboard if you ride it like a idiot. I had never ridden a motorcycle prior to getting my busa. I took the MSF class and I and very happy I did. I am also overjoyed that I started out on a busa. I was looking at a gixxer 1000 but if you can believe this my wife talked me into the busa and I am glad she did.

Actually, and I may be completely mistaken, I believe the Busa feels smaller than the 600. I sat on one today and my feet planted firmly on the ground and my knees were bent. On my Gixxer 600, I was almost always tippy toes when stopped, unless I leaned the bike to one side or the other.

Trust me, had you gotten the 600, you wouldn't have wished for something bigger. Don't let the smaller displacement fool you. The 600 class sport bikes are simply amazing machines.

[head east busa]

Yeah pretty much what everyone said for your first bike it's a bit much I started on a cbr 600 well before I upgraded. I think I would have not ridden if this was the first bike I got on cause I would have killed myself. At least one of my old bikes can attest that I made every reasonable attempt to do it too lol .

[nittosbusa]

I read this thread and really thought about a purchase of a busa. It had me scared to be honest. The stigma that this bike has is awesome to say the least. Maybe that is why people are drawn to it. Me it was the look of a sport bike but the ability to take a long trip. I bought my first bike which was a busa. this morning I taught my brother how to ride a bike on this same busa. He has never ridden ever. I enjoy my bike. Good advice to ponder, but there is only one person twisting the throttle.

[LukeKban]

I am 23 and I am on my first bike which is a 2000 Busa. I have about 1.5 months of riding practice, in which time Ive put about 2000 miles on her. Most of my friends once they found out what I had bought all said the same thing, "Your gona kill yourself". I hate hearing that. I got the bike from a fellow co-worker and all my other co-workin motorcyclists say that its not the bike, its the rider, which I totally agree. As long as you have respect for the machine, you'll do just fine. This is the bike I learned on as well. The first bike I took on the street was a 99 R6, which was fun, but honestly I felt much more comfortable on the Busa mostly because I was so much heavier it felt more planted and alot easier to drive. Being 6' 200lbs I felt like it fit me better. I have always been very mechanically inclined and took to the bike like I'd been doin it forever. The previous owner thought I had riden before when it was my first time on a motorcycle. When I asked to learn on it I told him Id never riden before but aparently he had forgoten or didnt believe me. For being such a fast bike, it is still very managable to ride. You can just cruise or you can fly. I knew of "the Busa" before I bought it and took it very easy while I was gettin used to it mostly because I was scared of the thing. But like I said, its a very managable bike. On the highway I can cruise along and if I need to get away from a bad driver a small twist of the throttle and Im gone. Tried that with the R6 and it made noise but barely moved without down shifting. Its nice to have the power on tap. Plus the extras are nice too, the temp and fuel gauges mostly, and my 220mph speedo. Bottom line, if your new you'll like any bike you buy. All I can say, seeing as Ive seen what my bike does, is if your going to get a Busa for your first bike, just take it easy and get used to it first. Dont be stupid with it until your comfortable. And Im most certain you'll love it. I Love My Busa!!! What an amazing bike!!!

[RACER_X]

Originally Posted by LukeKban

. Dont be stupid with it until your comfortable.

and when do you think the first crash usually happens?

hint: usually mos 6-8 of riding.

sorry but after 1.5mos and 2000mi you have no idea.

taken the MSF course?

this thread has veered 180deg from the OP........

[cjf1]

I agree you need some experience before buying this bike. I rode some dirt bikes when I was younger and rode my friends 600 here and there about 10 years ago. Then bought a 600 and rode it for about 3 months realizing it was too small I traded it for a Busa. Totally different bike. I do not have a ton of experience but believe me, I am very, very careful with this bike. Have the ultimate respect for the size and power. Very stable bike. I don't think you need years of experience before buying this bike but you definitely need some good experience and have owned a smaller bikepreviously. This bike is much heavier, especially going slow in the driveways and parking lots. I recommend taking the MSF course as well.

[TheBodyGuard]

Alright, been lurking for a while, let me introduce myself. I'm 44 and never owned a motorcycle. Owned and rode various ATVs like I "stole them" I rode a motorcycle many year ago but memory serves it was a small bike. I'm a big guy, 6.1 265 powerlifter. I've been toying with the idea of getting a bike for years now and when it comes to a big purchase, I usually try not be impulsive. So now you know why I'm here. I'm not a Harley guy obviously. And I've followed a few of these threads on the net and appreciate the input (seriously) but frankly, I do not follow the logic in all cases. A few talking points:

1. I appreciate that experience is always desirous but we all start somewhere. I've seen the analogy that you wouldn't start a new driver in a race car, but heck, my first car was an M3. Would I give that car to my son? No. Too much power. But I made it out without killing myself. Would a Chevy Vega have prepared me to handle a M3? Absolutely not. Driving experience in general would. However, at all times, I had control over the accelerator. Right?

2. I understand the premise of learning on a smaller bike. However, given that a smaller bike has different handling properties, how will that prepare me to drive a larger bike? I understand bikes get dropped when learning. If I can stomach the repairs, why not learn on the bike I'm going to ride anyway?

3. Why is there this thought that a BUSA will kill you but a smaller bike like a 600 won't? Drive dumb and both will kill you correct? I understand the BUSA can get you in trouble quicker, but really, relatively what are we talking? SEconds, fractions of seconds? It's like saying I can drive a Chevy Vega recklessly and survive it, but drive my M3 like an idiot and I'm toast. In both cases I'm toast. Correct?

4. Using the car analogy - and I understand its not a perfect analogy; with every car I've ever owned, I only learned the limits of that car by time behind the wheel and slowly exploring those limits. Tires chirped a bit in that corner? Now I know a limit. Tires broke loose? Now I really know the limit. How will a smaller bike prepare me to ride a big bike?

5. Safety classes go without saying. I would take every class available. I have a very very healthy respect for bikes - I've almost done myself in on aggressive ATV riding. Yes, 4 wheels v. 2, I know. And I'm respectful of the 2.

6. After 20 years of driving, aren't I a bit prepared to understand the potential danger spots? I've seen everything by now and yes, I know you're invisible to cars. But my driving experience has taught me people's tendencies and I can anticipate those, bike or car.

So other than a repair bill for dropping my bike, if it happens, what do I really gain by buying and riding a 600 for a year. I've already pondered the purchase for a few years. I want a bike. But I want to learn on the bike I'm going to ride. Why is this implied to be a death sentence?

Before anyone takes offense, believe me my questions are in earnest and I'm not being dismissive. I take this very seriously. I do not want to be a statistic. But some of the logic I've seen "against" the busa as a first bike, does not pass muster in my opinion and I'd sincerely like to discuss it and learn.

Thanks guys. And I can't imagine myself on anything but a busa. It's built for a guy like me I'm jealous of you all.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful replies.

[ogre]

to the guy above, go for it. i'm 25 and the busa is my first bike. also 6'1", 270 lbs, and i love this bike. control your right hand and respect the busa, and she'll take care of you.

[RACER_X]

Originally Posted by TheBodyGuard

.......

by chance have you read any of the post before yours? i bet alot of the answers have already been posted.

and i think what you'll find is that alot of younger newer riders will so, go ahead and do it........like ogre w/ 5? mos experience.........sorry,

whereas the older more seasoned riders say, take it easy, it's your first bike, not your last......why rush.

w/ that said, being your older and wiser you have alot better chance of "making it" then some 20 y.o. kid.......thats the fact and ins. will prove it......

priced that yet? almost stopped this seasoned 42y.o. from buying one........

[jphilipson]

Originally Posted by RACER_X

by chance have you read any of the post before yours? i bet alot of the answers have already been posted.

and i think what you'll find is that alot of younger newer riders will so, go ahead and do it........like ogre w/ 5? mos experience.........sorry,

whereas the older more seasoned riders say, take it easy, it's your first bike, not your last......why rush.

w/ that said, being your older and wiser you have alot better chance of "making it" then some 20 y.o. kid.......thats the fact and ins. will prove it......

priced that yet? almost stopped this seasoned 42y.o. from buying one........

+1 ... this thread makes me LOL with everyone posting their justifications for making a bad decision

[ogre]

Originally Posted by RACER_X

by chance have you read any of the post before yours? i bet alot of the answers have already been posted.

and i think what you'll find is that alot of younger newer riders will so, go ahead and do it........like ogre w/ 5? mos experience.........sorry,

whereas the older more seasoned riders say, take it easy, it's your first bike, not your last......why rush.

w/ that said, being your older and wiser you have alot better chance of "making it" then some 20 y.o. kid.......thats the fact and ins. will prove it......

priced that yet? almost stopped this seasoned 42y.o. from buying one........

wow, zing. i'm kinda hurt

and i don't feel i made a bad decision buying the busa. it's a great bike.

[TheBodyGuard]

Originally Posted by jphilipson

+1 ... this thread makes me LOL with everyone posting their justifications for making a bad decision

I didn't make a decision. I think I said something along the lines of thank you for your thoughtful replies or something to that effect. I forgot I'm on the internet. Instead of a mindless LOL, why don't you explain your position. I asked what I thought were some legit questions.


To the other reply, yes I read the entire thread and an entire thread just like this on another board. I still have the same questions. Thanks.

I have a very powerful car right now ( I know, not a good analogy to the bike) that I would not turn over to my 18 year old - not because I care about the car getting damaged, but because of the power. But I'm 44. What is a 600 going to do for me? Am I going to be less dead if I crash that 600 at highway speeds than I am if I crash a busa at highway speeds? And if the handling is different on a 600, how will that prepare me for the busa? I just spoke to a guy who is selling his busa. He had a 600 and felt like he wasted his time. Granted he's been riding dirtbikes for much of his life but geez, I've been on a dirtbike or two myself - and I don't see the magic.



Are there any statistics that back up this line of thought about lesser bikes and liter bikes? Are there less fatalities for sub liter bikes? A crash on a bike is a crash on a bike in my mind. Someone school me, that's why I'm here - not because I think I have all the answers.

By the way, to the other poster my age, what was the quote for insurance? I'm very curious b/c my driving record is "distinguished" LOL

[ogre]

here's what i've heard, and what prompted me to buy a busa as a first bike. if you learn on, and get used to a smaller cc bike, you'll start to respect it less. then you'll try to ride a busa like a 600, only to find that instead of 120, you're at 150. when you go to brake (almost typed "break", you guys are ruining my good spelling) it'll take a bit longer, you can't go quite as deep into the corner. just buy the damn busa. keep your right hand in check, and respect the bike, you'll do fine.

[RACER_X]

Originally Posted by TheBodyGuard

.....

call your ins. agent and ask how much it;ll cost to fully insure YOU a 44 y.o. male on a busa if they even do it at all.........and then ask yourself why it;s so high, the answer should be obvious.......

as for the learning, your old enough to know the right decision, but young enough not to make it.......

yeah you rode a dirt bike a few times 20 yrs ago..........

since i post all over the I-net about this stuff, i already have some prepackaged quotes i use

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You Be The Judge

I'm a big rider so I need a bigger bike to get me around.

I'm a tall rider and all of those beginner bikes just don't fit me the way the sportbike does.

I'll look huge and foolish riding on such a small bike.

My friends will laugh at me for riding something so small.

These arguments are almost as bad as the vanity arguments. The difference being is they simply show a lack of motorcycle knowledge for the most part.

Unless you are over 6'3" tall or are extremely overweight (meaning well over 300lbs), even the smallest 250cc motorcycle will be able to accommodate you without difficultly. To provide an example, the Ninja 250R has a load limit of 348 pounds. That is more than sufficient to accommodate a heavier rider in full gear and still leave plenty of space for cargo in tank, tail and saddle bags. Or enough to allow two-up riding between two average weight individuals.

The idea that bigger riders need bigger bikes is almost laughable. It's like saying small drivers need Honda Civics but bigger drivers only 100 pounds heavier need to drive Hummers to get around. Or Corvettes with plenty of power to pull their ample frames, as the analogy goes. It is only because of the small physical size of bikes compared to their users that this train of thought even exists. It simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny. A look at any motorcycle owner's manual will confirm that for you.

Tall riders suffer more from fit issues than weight issues. On this, they do have a point. I'm a taller rider (6'1"). I do fold up quite comfortably on the Ninja 250 which is considered a small bike. I found it perfect for my frame. Others haven't. Then again, my knees hit the bars on bikes like the Rebel 250 and Buell Blast. Just different ergonomics that didn't fit me.

For taller riders, a much better beginner fit is a dual-sport machine rather than a sport machine. They offer the high seat heights that make them comfortable rides and their power is well within acceptable limits. We have a small but vocal dual-sport community here and they will tell you, quite rightly, that a dual-sport is just as capable on twisty roads as a sportbike. The same properties that give sportbikes their cornering ability is also possessed by dual sports (high center of gravity).

As to peer pressure, I admit to taking more than my fair share of ribbing from my 600cc riding friends. Some of it good natured, some of it not. In the end, this argument falls into the vanity arena. Which is more important: Your safety and comfort on a bike or what your friends think?

The ways to deal with friends giving you a hard time about a smaller ride is very simple. Tell them to ride their rides and you'll ride yours. It's your ride, after all. Most true riders will accept other riders, no matter what they are on. Only posers and losers care that your ride doesn't measure up to their "standards". And if so, do you really want to be riding with them anyway? It's more fun to stand out than to be a member of a flock anyway. And if they don't buy that line of reasoning, try this one: "Well if you don't like my ride, why don't you go buy me something that you will like?". THAT will shut them up REALLY fast. It works too. Unless their name is on the payment book or the title, it shouldn't be their concern.

If your friends can't deal with your decisions, you're probably better off looking for new friends. And if you can't deal with the peer pressure, then you are putting your own safety at risk solely because of what others think. Revisit the vanity arguments above and think about why you want to ride.

Decision Justification Arguments

I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

I'm a careful driver so I'll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.

I drive a fast car so I'll be able to handle a fast bike.

Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn't get hurt. So why can't I?

These arguments are the most common ones put forth and the ones that are hardest to deal with. These are the arguments that start flame wars. Because it is on these arguments that you have to convince someone the idea of what a beginner bike is over their preconceived notions.

The arguments also often surface in what I call the "decision justification arguments". Many new riders have their heart set on a specific bike and often come to BB to ask about it not to get real advice but to get confirmation that their decision is right. In cruisers, standards, scooters and dual-sports, more often than not these "pre-decisions" are generally good ones. In sportbikes, more than 3/4 of the posters are trying to get the community to approve their choice of a 600cc machine as a first ride. Their shock is quite real when they are barraged with answers that don't meet their expectations and that is when a flurry of oft-repeated discussion ensues.

Let's take each argument in turn since these are the ones that turn up with regularity.

I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

The purpose of a first bike is to allow you to master basic riding skills, build confidence and develop street survival strategies. You don't grow into a bike. You develop your skills on it. As your skills develop, so does your confidence and with it, your willingness to explore what the bike is capable of.

But you are also entering in a contract with the bike. It is two-way. You are going to expect the bike to act on your inputs and the bike in turn is going to respond. The problem is, your skills are still developing but the bike doesn't know that. It does what it is told. You want a partner in a contract to treat you fairly. On a bike, you don't want it fighting you every step of the way. And like most contracts, the problems don't start until there is a breakdown in communication or a misunderstanding.

In sportbikes, the disparity between a new rider's fledgling skills and the responsiveness of the machine are very far apart. That is a wide gulf to bridge when you are still trying to figure out what the best inputs and actions on the bike should be. Ideally, you want your bike to do what you tell it and do it nicely. You never want the bike to argue with you. Modern sportbikes, despite their exquisite handling will often argue violently right at the moment a new rider doesn't need them to.

Remember, riding is a LEARNED skill. It does not come naturally to the majority of us (save those like the Hayden brothers who were raised on dirt bikes from the moment they could walk). It must be practiced and refined. Riding is counter-intuitive to most new riders. It doesn't happen the way you expect. For example, at speeds over 25mph, to get a bike to go right, you actually turn the bars to the left. It's called counter-steering and it eventually comes naturally as breathing once you've been in the saddle for a while. But for new riders, this kind of thing is utterly baffling.

You want your skills to grow in a measurable and predictable fashion. You have enough to be fearful of riding in traffic. The last thing you need is to be fearful of what your bike might do when you aren't ready for it. It's never a good situation.

It is interesting to point out that only one manufacturer, Suzuki, explicitly states in their promotional material that their GSX-R family of sportbikes are intended for experienced riders. This also applies to several of their larger, more powerful machines (such as a GSX-1300R Hayabusa). If Suzuki issues such a warning for its top-flight sport machines, it is reasonable to say that the same warning would apply equally to similar machines from other manufacturers.



Form Equals Function: Part Two

In Part One of this article, we covered a lot of the excuses that new riders give for wanting to start on a 600cc sportbike. This second half finishes off our discussion of this reasoning and discusses why high-powered sport machines are not the ideal beginner machine.

False Logic Completed

Last month, we covered many of the reasons new riders give to justify why they want or should get a 600cc sportbike. Now we finish with the last and most common excuses given.

I'm a careful driver so I'll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.

This is what I call the "I'm responsible and mature" argument. This one is a general excuse and does not apply to sportbikes in particular.

Recent studies have shown that 90% of all drivers feel that they have average to above-driving abilities compared to other drivers on the road. These drivers also said that they think 60% of those on the road are less skilled than they are. It's an interesting perception as it indicates a mentality that everyone else is sub-par, not you. Obviously someone has to be wrong because the percentages just don't add up.

A proper attitude towards driving as well as riding is essential. But these same drivers who see themselves as superior also engage in dangerous driving habits (aggressive weaving, illegal passing, bad merges, following too close, lack of attention to traffic/road conditions, etc). Very few drivers are truly honest with themselves and their ability to handle a vehicle.

The problem is, on a bike, the perception that you are responsible is not enough. On a bike, you must be. You either learn to be or you are going to be in trouble really quick. In talking with other riders I have found that they tend to be much more defensive and thoughtful drivers behind the wheel because riding raises their perception of their surroundings.

Ultimately, responsible and mature does not equate to riding skill. It has nothing to do with it except how you will approach riding in general. You want to know the sign of a responsible rider? Look at their gear. Are they in full safety gear? Watch them ride. If you are seeing them turn their heads to clear their blind spots, making careful and smooth maneuvers, leaving a nice, safe amount space around them and working to maximize your chance of seeing and knowing what they are doing, then you are looking at a responsible rider.

Now do the same exercise and watch the drivers around you. How many turn their heads to check their blind spots, signal lane changes, leaving several car lengths of space in front of them, weave in and out of traffic or dash to the end of a ramp and then attempt to force themselves onto the highway rather than yield like they are supposed to? I'm willing to bet it's not going to be a pretty significant percentage. Now imagine these same individuals on a bike. I'm sure you'll be able to spot more than a few of these types on bikes to (just look for the T-shirts and flip-flops as they blast by you at 100mph on the Interstate on the right).

How you approach the task of driving is how you will approach riding. Attention to the task of riding is the number one way you avoid trouble by not getting into it in the first place. Study your own driving habits. Good habits will definitely keep your chances of getting into trouble but they have little to do with controlling a motorcycle. Any motorcycle. Many lax drivers often become much better drivers as the result of riding a motorcycle. It is far less common for it to go in the other direction.

I drive a fast car so I'll be able to handle a fast bike.

Of all the excuses and justifications, this one is my personal favorite. It is in the top three most common excuses given and it shows a complete and utter lack of motorcycle knowledge. It is a statement made out of naivety rather than ignorance.

Most of the folks who make this statement own fast cars (Corvette, Mustang, Acura, modified Civic, etc) or think they do. The belief is that if you can drive fast in a car you can handle a bike that can go fast. I would argue unless these folks race cars on weekends, driving a car that can go fast does not make them a experienced high-speed driver. And for those that do understand how to handle a car at high speed, it gives you knowledge of braking and traction but even that knowledge is useless for one simple reason:

Bikes are not cars.

Braking, traction control, acceleration and handling are totally different on a motorcycle. Cars do not lean. Bikes do. When bikes lean, it changes the part of the tire contacting the ground (the contact patch/ring) and changes the stability and dynamics of the bike from moment to moment. The physics of motorcycle control are in a league of their own. Even the ability to race cars will not give you instant godhood on a motorcycle.

Are you aware that a racing motorcycle (any 600cc supersport made today basically) when it is turning is touching the ground with an amount of rubber equal to a couple of postage stamps? The same applies to any street bike at deep lean angles except they don't have the advantage of a smooth surface to hold on to or sticky race tires. Now imagine having to control the power and the amount of traction you are getting in that space.

Like being responsible, the ability to handle a car at high speed has nothing to do with handling a fast motorcycle. You are missing two wheels, a cage and a seatbelt on a bike. Turning at 70mph becomes a whole different world on a motorcycle compared to car. Braking is a different experience too. It is fairly hard to stand a car on its front fender if you stomp on the brakes. It can be done with two fingers, a good amount of speed and a moment of panic on a sportbike. The only cars that have brakes equal or better than that of a sportbike built in the last 10 years is a Formula One race car.

The skills to handle the potent combination of acceleration, instant-on power and brakes are best learned on a smaller machine so when you finally get on that ultimate sportbike, you have an idea of what to do and how to handle the machine. Driving a car won't give you that. Only time in the saddle, the more, the better.

Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn't get hurt. So why can't I?

This is probably the number one reason that pops up. However, it isn't so much a reason as an observation. And it is a true one. Every year, lots of new riders go to their local dealerships or scour their local ads and bring home a brand new or used 600cc sportbike. And many of those riders do successfully manage to get through their learning process on these machines.

The purpose of a first ride more than any other is to get the risk of riding for the first year or two as low as possible. You want your margin of forgiveness in the bike to be as wide as possible. A 600cc sportbike gives you very little of that. Yes, a 600cc down low is a tame if sensitive machine. However, it takes very little twist on the throttle to induce a large jump in rpm's. A brief bump on a pothole with a death grip on the throttle can introduce a 4000rpm jump in the blink of an eye (speaking from personal experience). In an experienced rider's hands, this is alarming but recoverable. A gentle rolloff or a little clutch feathering manages the surge nicely. In the hands of a newbie trying to figure out the best reaction to such a scare, a rapid closeoff or a panic brake is often the result and can get you into trouble very, very quickly.

Yes, a new rider can start on a 600cc sportbike. It is NOT RECOMMENDED! The reason this line of reasoning pops up so often is because everyone feels they are the exception rather than just another new rider. It makes sense. It's hard to think of oneself as just another face in the crowd. As a rider, I know I am just another average rider. Although I have track aspirations, I have no doubt as to where my skill level is and it is definitely not in (or ever was) in the "start on a 600cc exceptional group".

In the end, to deal with this line of reasoning is going to involve the new rider, not the one giving the advice. No one can stop that person from going out and buying a 600cc sportbike as a first ride. And maybe they will succeed and crow about all the bad advice they received on starting small. Great! They were the exception.

What you don't hear about are the non-exceptional people. Very, very few new riders who start on 600s come back to talk about their experiences if they aren't in the "I've had no problems." group. On the forums recently, there have been a couple folks who admitted they got 600cc sportbikes to start on and indicated that it had been a less-than-ideal choice. This type of honesty is refreshing and it is very, very rare. I am grateful these riders stepped up.

Most of the time, we never learn the fate of those riders who start on 600s. Some make it and simply never bother to tell their tales except to friends. Some wind up scaring themselves so badly (by getting out of control or by actually dumping the bike and injuring themselves) that they sell off and never ride again. These types can be found. Just troll the ads for new supersports with one owner and low miles. The worst of this class of riders are the ones who become "born again safety advocates". These riders who scare themselves out of riding occasionally become preachers that tell anyone who will listen that "motorcycles are dangerous and should be banned". What they don't tell those they are preaching to is how they got that way. It's bad enough having to deal with the general public (who are at least honestly unaware of what riding is about) but a lot worse to be sabotaged from within by someone who did it to themselves and got in over their head.

Then there is the last group of these "started on a 600cc sportbike" riders that never tell us their tales. They never do because they can't. Instead, they enjoying peaceful surroundings and occasional visits by bereaved family and friends. They made that one mistake, that one error that compounded into a tragedy of inexperience. They can never tell us what that error was so we can learn from it and maybe also tell us that they should have started on something smaller. They were successful right until the point their skills and luck ran out. This can happen to any of us on any bike. But, in the end, new riders on a powerful sportbike can be a recipe for disaster.

Be honest with yourself. Very honest. Take the advice and wisdom of others more experienced than you and consider what they are saying. They may have a point. But if you opt for that 600cc sportbike, be assured you will still be accepted as a rider and still encouraged to act as safely as possible at all times.

The Final Equation

We've covered the reasons why people justify or want to get a 600cc sportbike. But we have one more thing to answer and it is simple: What makes these bad bikes to start on?

Sportbikes are built as racing machines, pure and simple. They are built in response to guidelines laid down by racing bodies for a particular class and made to win races in that class. Ducati, for example, spends most of their existence building bikes to win races. Since 1950, Ducati was always a racing bike manufacturer first and their products reflected that philosophy. A by-product of winning races is the fact that people see those winning machines and want to ride them (if you're going to ride, you might as well ride the best as it goes). It didn't take the motorcycle manufacturers long to figure out that there was a market demand for these machines and reacted accordingly.

Sportbikes represent a technological arms race. This has really become apparent in the past 5-10 years where new models eclipse last years models with better performance and capability with each passing year. To compare a 1989 Honda CBR600F Hurricane (the original CBR) to a 2003 CBR600RR is pointless. There is no comparison except in the model designation showing a distant family relation. The new CBR is lighter by at least 50 pounds and packs 30 percent more power, handling and braking ability that makes the original CBR look like a ponderous dinosaur. But just because that original CBR dinosaur has been eclipsed doesn't make it any more tamable. If anything, older sportbikes are far more temperamental than the descendants.

Consider the fact that this year a privateer (independent racer) bought a Yamaha YZF-R1 off the showroom floor, took off the lights and mirrors, added a race belly pan, exhaust and tires and placed in the top ten at the AMA Superbike race at Daytona. The bike was two weeks off the floor and basically stock (the modifications with the exception of the pipe are required). Since factory sponsored teams tend to take the top slots, any privateer that can break in the top ten is doing well by anyone's definition.

Because sportbikes (and especially 600s since they compete in the most populous racing class out there) are designed first as racing machines, they are built with handling, acceleration and speed in mind. Not just one quality at the expense of others but all of them in abundance! Centralizing the mass of the bike at the center of gravity (CoG) gives the bike neutral stability. The high riding position and the perching of the rider over the CoG gives the bike the ability to flick over rapidly.

The steering geometry and short wheelbase of these bikes is designed to provide short and rapid directional changes. Combined with the higher CoG and mass centralization, the steering setup is what gives sportbikes their amazing turning ability.

Engine designs vary but have settled on V-twins and inline fours as the preferred choices. The sportbike V-twins are liquid-cooled, high-rpm engines designed to generate massive torque (hence acceleration) and power in the mid-range of their design limits. Witness the success of Nicky Hayden and Miquel Duhamel on the Honda RC51 in AMA Superbike as testament to the massive grunt these engines put out. So potent in fact that the AMA changed the rules for the following season to even the odds between the V-twins and inline fours. The inline four equipped bikes simply couldn't outpower the twins on curvy portions of the race circuit.

The inline four is by far the most common engine layout in sportbikes including all 600cc sport designs (the Ducati 620SS has a V-twin but is air-cooled and the bike is not a racing machine). All of the sportbikes that new riders lust after are equipped with this engine design. High-rpm capability (redlines vary between 11K and 16K rpm), liquid cooled and designed to produce peak power at very high rpms. The inline four delivers smooth and increasing power as the throttle is opened. Power tends to build to the peak point, at which power the engine will tend to surge to peak power and fall off as the peak point is crossed. Although nowhere near as bad as a race-tuned two-stroke (which literally double their horsepower as the engine transitions to peak power), the engine displays its roots as a racing thoroughbred.

A 1mm or 1/16 of an inch twist of the throttle can easily result in a 2000-4000rpm jump. You can be cruising along at a sedate 4000rpm, hit a pothole and suddenly find the bike surging forward with the front end getting light at 7000rpm. Definitely unnerving the first time you experience it.

And then there are the brakes. Braking technology has gotten progressively more potent over the past ten years. Even older sportbikes sport twin disc setups with two or four piston calipers designed to get these bikes down from 150mph to 60mph as quickly as possible. Current generation bikes are unreal. These brakes have grown to six piston calipers with massive discs whose sole job is to slow a 180mph missile down to corner speed in the shortest distance possible. If you ever watch racers, notice that they tend to only use two fingers to brake. They don't need anymore than that. The brakes are almost too powerful. And accidents happen on the track a lot due to bad or late braking.

[RACER_X]

All of these qualities produce an exquisite riding machine. The problem is, all of these qualities are designed to operate at extremes since it is under extreme conditions that these bikes are intended to operate. For the street, these capabilities are overkill. A hard squeeze of the front brake on the street can easily get a sportbike to lock its front wheel. Same applies to an over-aggressive stomp on the rear brake. No matter which way you slice it, highsides hurt.

The powerful engine can literally get you from 0 to 45mph in the blink of an eye in first gear. Come up one gear and you can be at 70mph with the slightest drop of your wrist. Add in one bump at speed without knowing what the throttle is going to do and suddenly you aren't at 70mph anymore. You're at 90+ mph and the bike is tickling its "sweet spot". At this speed, you better not panic. If you botch the slowdown from this error (either by a rapid rolloff or a shift), you can find yourself in serious trouble.

The handling capabilities of sportbikes actually make them wonderful machines to ride once you are used to thinking where you want to go. This actually gives them great beginner qualities (if on the extreme end). The downside is this perfect handling is slaved to amazing power on tap and the brakes that can back it off just as quickly.




In the final equation, a 600cc sportbike is little more than a racing machine with street parts bolted on. They aren't designed for street use; they are adapted to it. But no compromises are made in that transition. The same R6, GSX-R600, ZX-6RR or CBR600RR you can buy off the showroom floor can be converted in an afternoon, be at the track the next day and wind up winning races. And the sportbikes from 10 years ago were the R6s, Gixxers, Ninjas and CBRs of their day. They possessed the same qualities that their modern descendants do just not with the same maximums. Even today on the street, a 15 year old sportbike is little different than its 2003 cousin. The 2003 might accelerate quicker, stop shorter and lean farther but at the speeds us mortals ride at, there will be little difference.

Sportbike technology has gone an amazing distance in twenty years. Performance and ability has almost doubled in that time. But rider ability has not and a new rider from 20 years ago would still have the same challenges then as a new rider would today on an R6.

Sportbike form evolved to meets its function: to win races. Always has, always will. And riders will lust after these technological marvels for that reason. Can you start out on one? Yes. But you can also pretend to be a GP racer on a smaller sportbike that gives up nothing to its bigger brothers where most of us spend our riding days. It is always more satisfying to smoke a 600cc or 1000cc sportbike in the twisties on a Ninja 250 or GS500 than a bigger bike.

But when you are ready to answer the call of the Supersport, they will be waiting for you and you'll be better off having honed your skills on the smaller sportbike. Supersports are not beginner bikes. But they make great second and third bikes.

The choice is yours. make a smart one, because it will impact your life

[TheBodyGuard]

Originally Posted by RACER_X

call your ins. agent and ask how much it;ll cost to fully insure YOU a 44 y.o. male on a busa if they even do it at all.........and then ask yourself why it;s so high, the answer should be obvious.......

as for the learning, your old enough to know the right decision, but young enough not to make it.......

yeah you rode a dirt bike a few times 20 yrs ago..........

since i post all over the I-net about this stuff, i already have some prepackaged quotes i use

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Nice article but above a real **** move. No surprise that you're all over the I-net as rudeness abounds there but whatever - par for the course. Who said 20 years ago? I'm on the quad damn near every weekend, riding it like I stole it - plenty of dirtbikes around...I just don't care for them as much. Again, **** move but very informative post and I thank you for it.

I'm here, asking an earnest question, because I have NOT made a decision. As for some of your content, I could care less how I look or what friends say. I'm not 20. I asked honest earnest questions. At least acknowledge it by not being a ****.

[RACER_X]

so what can be said to change your mind? that if you get on one your going to instantly die? well thats not gonna happen. are your chances of crashing high, yes very ,thats why ins. is so high on these, even for us old guys.

as for what can a 600 do? they'll outrunn 99% of the cars on the road. sure a crash at60 mph is the same on any bike. it takes a busa ? what 2 sec a 600 2.5 sec and ninja250 5 sec all to get to 60mph seconds count when making mistakes.

your a big boy and its your $ obviously so what do you gotta do, can you justify why a busa makes a good first bike other then, you want one?