JINKSTER ATTACKS "SUSPENSION"

[FAKK2]

JINKSTER say I do not go 1.1kg but stay witht he 1.05kg and the 14kg rear spring, how would you sugest to set it up.. just out of curiousity

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (FAKK2 @ May 09 2005,13:35)]JINKSTER say I do not go 1.1kg but stay witht he 1.05kg and the 14kg rear spring, how would you sugest to set it up.. just out of curiousity

Not to sound like a wise@$$ but to answer your question..

"I'd Set It Up By The Numbers"

i.e. after the new 1.05 and 14kg springs were installed I'd set the rear shock spring preload with 15mm of thread showing just as a starting point...then I'd use the front preload adjustment to "measure, adjust & set sag" on the forks as described in the initial post...then I'd get seriouse with setting the rear spring preload (again by measuring and setting sag)...and once I had the rear dialed in for sag?...I'd re-address the front just to double check and make sure I still had it right as whatever you do to the rear can and does have an affect on the front and visa-versa....as changes to one always influences the other.

I personally feel your wasting money on th 14kg rear spring..as your making an adequate spring even stiffer...and then your mis-matching things even further by under-ordering front springs...so now you have a overly sprung rear working hard against an undersprung front...but you seem rather insistant on doing this combo...and as far as damping goes?...I could never advise you on that as I do not have and never would recomend the spring combo you seem so instant on ordering and installing.

You've beat me to death on this fakk...I'm glad to help in anyway I can but as the old saying goes?..you can lead a horse to water but...it's you're bike man!!! LOL!!!

L8R, Bill.

[chain]

Bill, what was the stock thread measurement on the rear shock preload before you altered it? I'm guessing it was in the 10-15mm range (measuring exposed thread atop the locking collar)?

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (chain @ May 09 2005,19:25)]Bill, what was the stock thread measurement on the rear shock preload before you altered it? I'm guessing it was in the 10-15mm range (measuring exposed thread atop the locking collar)?

15mm's of thread showing seems to be stock.

[chain]

Excellent. Then I added about 4mm for a grand total of ~19mm preload.

Thanks again and let us know how your new fork springs work out.

[outlawed]

That is a sick thread thanks for the info. When it gets decent weather outside ill have to attack my own with this knowledge. Dam new england weather.

[JINKSTER]

Well my new Traxxion 1.1 Straight Rate Omni Spring Kit and Fork Spring Compressor Tool arrived at my doorstep yesterday so I'm getting ready to take things to the next level here.

One of the problems I encountered is decoding and/or cross-ref'ing Suzukis odd fork oil weight call-out of "L01"...and right now I'm thinking it's probably 10wt as stock but am going to Spectro 5w...this will require that I apply a tad more rebound damping but will allow the oil to flow faster through the stock valving thereby greatly reducing the frequency of "Hydraulic Lock" events during compression damping and spiking my wrists when riding over the sharp edged stuff so..between getting the too soft stock progressive rate springs out of there and installing properly sprung straight rate springs with a lighter weight fork oil my baby should be standing tall annnnd yeild far more compliance...schweeeeeeet. *

L8R, Bill.



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[dm_gsxr]

I made the suggested changes for 210 lbs (I'm 198ish and with gear I'm sure I'm up around 210: 'stich, boots, backpack). I tried to adjust the collar around the rear spring but it was picking up some wicked damage from my drift (steel rod and aluminum collar). It was causing the tabs to mushroom a little. I got it to about 17mm showing which might be close to 18mm due to the mushrooming.

The ride in seemed to be stiffer in that I felt the road bumps a little more which was to be expected. When I got to a stop, the nose didn't dive near as much as it used to. Accelerating from the light and roll-ons made the bike feel like a jack-rabbit. No rocking back.

This weekend I'll be up in the mountains and carefully trying the twisties to see how much difference it made.

I'm going to check in on how much the actual collar adjusting tool costs. If it's not outrageous I'll probably get one.

I'll ride carefully to get used to it so I don't head off into the bushes on my first run

Thanks for the instructions.

Carl

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (dm_gsxr @ May 11 2005,15:07)]I made the suggested changes for 210 lbs (I'm 198ish and with gear I'm sure I'm up around 210: 'stich, boots, backpack). I tried to adjust the collar around the rear spring but it was picking up some wicked damage from my drift (steel rod and aluminum collar). It was causing the tabs to mushroom a little. I got it to about 17mm showing which might be close to 18mm due to the mushrooming.

The ride in seemed to be stiffer in that I felt the road bumps a little more which was to be expected. When I got to a stop, the nose didn't dive near as much as it used to. Accelerating from the light and roll-ons made the bike feel like a jack-rabbit. No rocking back.

This weekend I'll be up in the mountains and carefully trying the twisties to see how much difference it made.

I'm going to check in on how much the actual collar adjusting tool costs. If it's not outrageous I'll probably get one.

I'll ride carefully to get used to it so I don't head off into the bushes on my first run

Thanks for the instructions.

Carl

Carl...I observed your riding first hand at the Busa Bash and it was readily apparent to me that you're a well seasoned rider with some seriouse skills....well..imho?...your skills are about to be seriously amplified as...your Busa should feel very stabil and planted with much higher feedback levels which will boost your confidence..(so be careful and don't get "Over-Confident" as these setting do seriousely upgrade the suspensions performance) as my busa now corners like a cat as compared too the stock settings.

btw..those shock collars are plated steel..and maybe I've done wrong here by not specifying that....

a. The rear must be "FULL SUSPENDED IN MID AIR" (a rear stand does not facilitate this as it supports the bike by it's own swingarm which still leaves the shock "loaded" under the bike weight)...that weight must be "RELIEVED" prior to attempting too make the shock spring preload adjustment.

and...

b. If you do use the "Hammer & Drift" method to adjust the shock collars?..."GENTLE TAPPING" (just enough to get it to move a little at a time) is the way to go..if you get over-anxiouse or observe "mushrooming of the tabs" you're getting too agressive...take it slow and easy does it..or better yet?...get the right tool...I'll be researching this in an effort tro find the correct spanner wrench to make this rear shock preload adjustment...or if someone finds it before me please feel free to post it here.

L8R, Bill.



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[JINKSTER]

Gentlefolk...please consider this an addendum to the primary post here...

"THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT SPRINGS"

Very short, sweet and concise here...

The industry standard regarding "Tolerances For Spring Compression Rates" is +/- 5%. (but are typically held much closer than that)

What's this mean to you?: Spring to spring, bike too bike suspension settings can and will vary even amoungst riders of equal weight..to a degree..and THIS is why it is so important to set-up YOUR bikes suspension sag numbers TOO YOU and then fine tune to taste and/or personal preference. In this I myself strive to attain a good balance between "Bump Compliance" and "Suspension Performance" (whereby I'm attempting to minimize front end dive and rear end squat....what I call...."The Hobby Horse Affect")
which in turns greatly minimizes front too rear weight transfer during hard braking/acceleration manuvers making the bikes chassis far more stabil during aggressive riding.

To give you an idea?...the magic "laden sag" numbers I came up with by calculating 33% of the forks 4.7 inches of overall travel is 3.449.

Now...if you calculate in the industry standard tolerancing of +/- 5%?...theoretically...with different bikes at the same settings...

5% of 3.499 ='s .172 inches

so at max outboard tolerances our actual laden sag dimensions (even at the same settings) could vary as much as..

.172 (-5%) + .172 (+ 5%) ='s .344 inches max tolerance span on just the spring too spring tolerances alone.

So...this explains why optimum laden sag settings may vary from bike too bike even with riders of equal weight and...there's also naturally induced "Spring Sag" that takes place over time and use.

I figured I'd address that BEFORE anyone inquired. *

L8R, Bill.



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[dm_gsxr]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (JINKSTER @ May 11 2005,09:27)]Carl...I observed your riding first hand at the Busa Bash and it was readily apparent to me that you're a well seasoned rider with some seriouse skills....well..imho?...your skills are about to be seriously amplified as...your Busa should feel very stabil and planted with much higher feedback levels which will boost your confidence..(so be careful and don't get "Over-Confident" as these setting do seriousely upgrade the suspensions performance) as my busa now corners like a cat as compared too the stock settings.

I appreciate the compliments. I've been on bikes for quite a few years but on sportbikes only since '03 with a GSXR750W.

I picked up a couple of Performance Street and Track riding books in order to learn how to use the bike correctly. I'm still working on my confidence levels. I know that in some turns I'll lose it and do the wrong thing. That's why I'm practicing and learning as much about the mechanics of this bike which include getting it tuned properly.

b. If you do use the "Hammer & Drift" method to adjust the shock collars?..."GENTLE TAPPING" (just enough to get it to move a little at a time) is the way to go..if you get over-anxiouse or observe "mushrooming of the tabs" you're getting too agressive...take it slow and easy does it..or better yet?...get the right tool...[/quote]

Yea, that's what I'm going to be doing. I'll check with them today. I don't want to deform the collars or the threads with my less than stellar mechanical skills

I'll be researching this in an effort tro find the correct spanner wrench to make this rear shock preload adjustment...or if someone finds it before me please feel free to post it here.[/quote]

I called the local guys. It's part #150470 and goes for $16.95.

L8R, Bill. [/quote]

Thanks again for your help.

Carl

[cache]

dm_gsxr..... broomfield, huh? I learned to ride a streetbike when I lived in boulder. small world.

sorry for the hijack bill.

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (cache @ May 12 2005,01:00)]dm_gsxr..... broomfield, huh? * I learned to ride a streetbike when I lived in boulder. *small world.

sorry for the hijack bill.

not a problem..no worries cache...I ain't that dang touchy.

[dm_gsxr]

Just wanted to pass along step 2 here. I got the tool and made the adjustment to the rear shock.

It was a bit frustrating though. The tool is exactly the right size for the left opening so you must turn the collar all the way to the edge. If it's off by just a little off, you can't get the tooth behind the next lug.

I'll find out just how much better it is tomorrow.

Carl

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (dm_gsxr @ May 12 2005,04:44)]It was a bit frustrating though. The tool is exactly the right size for the left opening so you must turn the collar all the way to the edge. If it's off by just a little off, you can't get the tooth behind the next lug.

Welcome to wrenching on motorcycles Carl!!! LOL!!!

I've spent most of my life machining and assembling in the aircraft industry and like I've told many other machinists and automotive mechanics...

"I have the utmost respect for motorcycle mechanics as everything is so tightly shoe horned together and the fits and tolerances are so tight (along with the working conditions) that the dif between an automech and a motorcycle mech is like the difs between a diesel mechanic and a swiss watch maker."

and yeah...sometimes you're lucky to "Get A Full Swing" with your wrench on anything under the fairings of a sportbike...and sometimes you hafta get real creative "just to" get a full swing and...patience is always key.

Good luck with the new settings Carl...I hope you like'em and I'm almost certain you will....it may take a little fine tuning to personal preference and taste...go back to my last post on the 2nd page and my addendum of "Things You Should Know About Springs" will explain why.

Good luck and L8R, Bill.

[him]

Hey jinks or anyone i was just out working on the supension. my

full extension is =126 mm
static sag = 103 mm
laden sag = 100 mm
im 160lbs
i dont know what to do with the numbers from your post is 3.449 the number for everyone?

in this case my actual travel will be 26mm? which is one inch.... im trying to turn that one inch into 3.449 inches? Am i on the right track

[him]

ok i think i get it my laden sag should be 89mm not 100mm? Am i right anyone

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (him @ May 14 2005,20:03)]Hey jinks or anyone i was just out working on the supension. *my

full extension is =126 mm
static sag = 103 mm
laden sag = 100 mm
im 160lbs
i dont know what to do with the numbers from your post is 3.449 the number for everyone?

in this case my actual travel will be 26mm? which is one inch.... im trying to turn that one inch into 3.449 inches? Am i on the right track

him: either you're confused or you are confusing me but just to recap the terminology and their respective meanings..

Full Extension: This measurement is pretty much self explainatory and you got it right as you posted measuring 126mm's...(which is only 1mm off my rough inch measurement of 5"s...which is 125mm)..so we're on track there.

Static Sag: is how much compression you get with JUST the weight of the bike...and with my spring preload socked down to just one line showing?...I have a measurement on my busa of 3.850"s...so...5" - 3.850" (97.7mm) ='s 1.150" (or just over 29mm) "Static Compression".

Then with me sitting on the bike in riding position (with feet on the pegs) we have...

Laden Sag: where I get a measurement of 3.150" whereby..

5" (125mm) - 3.150" (80mm) ='s 1.850" (or 45mm's) worth of "Laden Compression"

Now..bear in mind that even though we "measure" 5"s or 126mm full extension?...we only actually have 4.7 inches of actual overall travel available to us...and 33% of 4.7"s ='s 1.551 (39.4 mm) as what is a desirable 33% laden compression and...33% is soft as compared to race sag where riders look for just 30mm's of laden compression...me?..I'm compressed 5+mm's too much...past the "desirable"....way too soft..and that's with my preload adjuster almost fully compressed.

Your numbers aren't making sense to me as there's no way the weight of your body is only compressing your forks a measly 3mms dif between static and laden sag.

L8R, Bill.



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[him]

when i get on the bike to test get my laden sag i hop on and get in my regular riding postion legs around the tank.....am i supposed to press down or something as if i were going over bump, cause with me on it sitting like i regualrly ride it doesnt move? Is there something that needs to be adjusted here to make it move?

So im tryin to set it up where the bikes weight alone (static sag) = 39.4mm of movement
and with me on it i get a total of 80mms?

Where do the preload adjusters come into play here. i used the 17mm bolts to adjust my static sag right. was i correct in doing this

As of now here are my specs my laden sag is 89mm
my static sag is right at 92mm

Oh yeah i also have spacers on my tree which drops me one inch in the front

[JINKSTER]

him: 89mm laden is a pretty good number as 126mm (extended) - 89mm (laden) ='s 37mm "Laden Sag Compression"..close enough..but what isn't making sense to me is that you posted measuring 92mm static..126 - 92 ='s 34mm "Static Sag Compression"...just 3mm less compression than Laden?...meaning the weight of your 160lb body is only compressing the forks a scant 3mm more than "Static"?

Something ain't jiving here.

L8R, Bill.