JINKSTER ATTACKS "SUSPENSION"

[vman1300]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (JINKSTER @ May 05 2005,14:04)]Vman: I had to do something to safely keep up with your huge ultra fast @$$!!! LOL!!! BTW...In speaking with Lee at traxxion he asked if we had any heavy duty riders as Traxxion is trying to come up with proper spring weight dynamics on the busa's rear shock to adequately and proper advise/accomodate the heavier riders amoungst us...I mentioned that your one he11uva rider and looking to do future track days with your busa...and they need to get some baseline numbers by putting a stock oem rear shock spring on their "Spring Dyno"...call Lee at traxxion...tell'em Bill Jinks sent ya..I'm certain they'll be happy to have ya ship'em your rear shock and maybe cut ya a brake...if not at least give ya some great suspenders to match rider weight for you...I've been in the hot pits with Max and his crew at Daytonas CCS championships...they know their pooh.

L8R, Bill.

Bill,

I have a full schedule of riding throught the middle of June. Next weekend, the R6 Messagenet, June 10-12th the FZ1 Rally and June 15-19 the R1 Forum all at the Gap. I could take down the Busa and ship out the shock to him after then.

Thanks for the info and I know I will be putting it to good use in a few months.

If you dont care PM me his contact info, I may be able to even round up a spare shock before then. Thank way he can help out us who are "vertically challenged".

Kevin

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (bronc3 @ May 05 2005,20:00)]Any suggestions as to dampening settings up front?

Yep....first screw both the compression ajustment (lower rear side of fork end casting) and rebound adjustment (little screw on top of spring preload adjusters) all the way IN till they stop..then...

REBOUND: 3 Clicks Out
COMPRESSION: 4 Clicks Out

and this is with your spring preload adjusters set at just 1 line showing...ie..socked all the way down too *the first line.

My Rear Shock Settings Are...

Rebound (botton screw): 10 Clicks Out
Compression (top screw): 7 Clicks Out

And that's with two full revs more rear shock spring preload from stock factory adjustment.

L8R, Bill.



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[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (vman1300 @ May 05 2005,20:10)]

Bill,

I have a full schedule of riding throught the middle of June. Next weekend, the R6 Messagenet, June 10-12th the FZ1 Rally and June 15-19 the R1 Forum all at the Gap. I could take down the Busa and ship out the shock to him after then.

Thanks for the info and I know I will be putting it to good use in a few months.

If you dont care PM me his contact info, I may be able to even round up a spare shock before then. Thank way he can help out us who are "vertically challenged".

Kevin

Vman....I'll pm that info to you tonight...gotta run..daughters at the bus stop.

L8R, Bill.

[cache]

jinxy, you wanna do one for dragrace setup?>?

[stkr00]

Thanks JINKSTER

I got the whole thing printed out, and will definitely be working on it before my next track day. Awesome job with the pics and explanations.


Two questions:
1. Do you have a pic of the rear shock compression and rebound dampening screws with which one is which? I just haven't looked in the service manual for it yet, but I will. Just wasn't sure if it was in there.

2. I'm 5'7" and weigh about 175. Do you think the stock fork springs would be sufficient to start with?

Thanks again

EDIT: I really like your jackstand and steel rod idea. Quite ingenious.



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[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (cache @ May 05 2005,20:25)]jinxy, you wanna do one for dragrace setup?>?

That's an easy one cache...

Stretch It, Slam It, Back out the fork spring preload adjusters, open up the compression damping, Strap Down The Front Forks and viola...tune for taste with an emphasis on reducing the bikes tendency to hoist the front wheel but still leave enough rear weight to hook up the rear for killer launchability and greatly reduced 60' times. LOL!!!

It's a tale of two cities as on one hand road racers need to try an figure out how to get supportive yet compliant suspension while drag racers just hafta figure out how to get rid of it!!! LOL!!!...some think struts and straps...but not quite so simple as dragers actually hafta tune their suspension to both the individual riders developed launching technic annnnd...the fearsome effects of rapidly induced torque sent through the Heavy Duty Clutch assys from monster built motors...which becomes an extremely individualistic bike-to-bike, rider-to-rider issue...in other words...what works great for one drag racer may not work so well for the other pending launch technic, throttle/clutch modulation and rider body positioning...but all that is JMHO.

L8R, Bill.

[cache]

you forgot about the rear rebound.... oh, and the big long explanation about how you actually did it on the track in different conditions.


oh, I forgot.... dragracing streebikes is easy.


but thats another story.

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (cache @ May 06 2005,04:23)]you forgot about the rear rebound.... oh, and the big long explanation about how you actually did it on the track in different conditions.


oh, I forgot.... dragracing streebikes is easy.


but thats another story. *

okay...ya lost me on that one.

[ks-waterbug]

Thanks for the detailed write up! Just finishing up my busa with new springs and valves up front..... doing a complete rebuild on the rear! Glad to see this posted. Couldn't agree more this is a must do mod. Bike will handle like day/night. Oh, forgot to mention raised the rear of my bike an inch with some custom dogbones. What a diff this made. Really slices through the corners now and what a wheelie machine..........

[shenoyp]

wow! Thats detailed.... definetly entitles for sticky

[him]

Hey can i just bring you my bike and you set mine up for me Also can we take this road set up and just drop the bike and head to the drag strip?

[DAB]

Thanks for the info.

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (him @ May 06 2005,14:58)]Hey can i just bring you my bike and you set mine up for me * Also can we take this road set up and just drop the bike and head to the drag strip?

Him: To answer your 1st question?....sure...if you'd like to come down my way I could take you and your busa out to moroso here in west palm beach, fl (or fly me up to IL) and I could watch you launch a few times and make recomendations/adjustments to help you set-up your busa's suspension for optimum launchability..but that's not real practical or realistic so..to answer your 2nd question?...

Not really...as road racing settings and drag settings are two different worlds but maybe I could share some thoughts/knowledge here to maybe help you (and others here) to better understand the physics behind optimizing your suspension.

First one must understand that springs are springs and damping is damping...as follows...

Springs: only serve to support the bike and riders "sprung weight" but must be of the proper compression rate to "Optimize and Maximize The Suspensions Effective Working Travel".

Damping: yeilds a fluid feel to what is a mechanically spung suspension but it's primary purpose and use is to "Control Wheel/Spring Velocity" on a vertical plane in both directions of compression and rebound.

Drag racers need to find a happy medium balancing the scales between reducing both rear wheel spin AND keeping the front end down..and it dosen't help when a good tight hard launch dictates that the rider at the line applies front brakes to "load the clutch" which serves to slightly lift the rear while compressing the front...then as the yellow light flickers to green all that energy is suddenly released and reversed as the slightly raised rear trys to squat (from loaded and raised) and the preloaded front releases and rises...and DAMPING under these conditions can best be exploited by max damping up front (thereby decreasing rebound velocity and slowing down the rise of the front) and maximizing compression values in the rear to help slow down the squatting reaction..greatly reducing the transfer of weight from front to rear and lessening the bikes propensity to hoist the front wheel....a balancing act.

To help avoid wheel spin and breakking loose at launch some drag racers (pending technic) will actually be better served with a slightly softer rear suspension as this will help dampen "The Torque Hit" to the rear wheel and help the rear retain it's traction values...acting sort of like a buffer for the clutch impaired if you will. LOL!!!

But like I said...all bets are off when draggers start making drastic changes to the bikes suspension geometry with dogbones, straps and lengthened swingarms..and the best you can do there is tune for a happy medium between reducing wheelyability yet retaining maximum rear wheel traction levels.

Road Racing and Drag Racing...two very different suspension worlds and two extremely large cans of worms.

Hope that helps and L8R, Bill.

[chain]

Hey Bill, I sent you an e-mail, did you get it?

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (chain @ May 06 2005,18:44)]Hey Bill, I sent you an e-mail, did you get it?

Yes I did...but I don't have the info/recommendations from sport rider so it's impossible for me to comment...email or pm me the settings and I'll do my best to explain or whatever it is your looking for me to do.

L8R, Bill.

[him]

well i do a bit of both i lower it for the track and raise it for the twisties. There is no meadian where i can just raise and lower and not have to readjust everything over and over again?

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (him @ May 06 2005,19:57)]well i do a bit of both i lower it for the track and raise it for the twisties. *There is no meadian where i can just raise and lower and not have to readjust everything over and over again?

him: I think I've done a fair job of describing in detail the differences between the two set-ups and switching from one too the other shouldn't require more than 15-20 minutes of screwdriver and spanner work so....the choice is yours to make....optimize or compromise...and when it comes to gett'in frisky with a 150+RWHP motorcycle I rarely if ever recomend the later.

L8R, Bill.

[chain]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (JINKSTER @ May 06 2005,18:54)]

Yes I did...but I don't have the info/recommendations from sport rider so it's impossible for me to comment...email or pm me the settings and I'll do my best to explain or whatever it is your looking for me to do.

L8R, Bill.

Click and scroll, last two entries on the Suzuki table...

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_...ttings/#suzuki

[JINKSTER]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (chain @ May 07 2005,16:05)]

Click and scroll, last two entries on the Suzuki table...

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_...ttings/#suzuki

Chain...I'm ROTFLMAO right now...as here's the difs...

1. These are pro track jockeys just trying to suggest the best settings with the stock hardware...tuned by personal feel, taste and preference and NOT by the book or by the numbers...and...

2. I copied the following from the "Suspension Tuning Guide" link...

"This guide will help you gain a better grasp of your sportbike's suspension and how to dial it in to get the most out of your motorcycle. After all, having horsepower is one thing, but if you can't get it to the ground, you'd just as soon be better off on a 50cc moped. Read, learn and enjoy.

--Kent Kunitsugu

Chain..have you ever seen "Kent Kunitsugu"?

Well..really neither have I...at least not in person but in photo's he appears to be like 130lbs soaking wet...and a pro racer....trust me...our suspension requirements will vary.

Just his "Spring Preload" numbers tell the story...he's running 4 lines showing in the front and 15mm of thread showing on the top of the rear shock...my 240lb #'s?....I have my front fork preload socked down to 1 line showing and 20mm's of thread showing on the rear shock...as my 240lb @$$ needs way more spring than does Kent...and this is a prime example why I went to all the trouble of sharing here how to propery set sag dimensions as rider weights do vary so much...and if your 200+ or anywhere's near it?...you'll hate what kent loved and if you use Kents numbers your busa will seem extremely vague, wallowy, and unplanted.....tune your suspension TOO YOU...by the book...by the numbers..you'll be much happier, safer, more confident annnnd....faster.

L8R, Bill.

[cache]

bill, thx for the kind words..... ya know, us drag racers are very touchy..