Ceramic Wheel Bearing Comparison to Steel...

GNBRETT

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thought this was interesting.....

wen ur taped out with go-fast mods these are a nice addition. Ive already done the Ceramic bearing in motor and trans. got a new set of aluminum rims and a set of world wide ceramic bearings will be going in soon.

their quite expense and not somthn I wud recommened unless uve done everything else to add power.

I thought this was kool too. granted no caliper installed so not an apples to apples comparison and of course their BST's so they are lighter then other wheels but dam 6 minutes is no joke!
 
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Just saying, but I fitted about $580 worth of ceramic bearings on a Colnago C60. (It's a bicycle) This was both wheels, the crank and the derailleur chain wheels.

I use a very accurate power meter and testing indoors, at 25mph on a set of rollers, it saves me about 4 watts. At about 300 watts, that is a saving of 1.3% which will help in a time trial by a few seconds. On a stand my wheels spin forever.

On a Hayabusa, that will save you at most 10 watts. So 10/134,000 = 0.007%, which is absolutely insignificant.

Put your money where it works for you.
 
Just saying, but I fitted about $580 worth of ceramic bearings on a Colnago C60. (It's a bicycle) This was both wheels, the crank and the derailleur chain wheels.

I use a very accurate power meter and testing indoors, at 25mph on a set of rollers, it saves me about 4 watts. At about 300 watts, that is a saving of 1.3% which will help in a time trial by a few seconds. On a stand my wheels spin forever.

On a Hayabusa, that will save you at most 10 watts. So 10/180,000 = 0.006%, which is absolutely insignificant.

Put your money where it works for you.
if its so insignificant then why does EVERY single pro street racer and competitive real street racer on the planet use them? it shud not be ones first mod I agree but wen uve done the head, cams, thermal barriers, light weight parts, billet turbo etc..... this is next.

and comparing ceramic bearings on a bike vs. a motorcycle is not quite apples to apples....
 
well, how much faster they make a bike is anyones guess without back to back real world testing in a very controlled environment which is essentially impossible to do at the track due to head wind, traction, clutch slip, reaction time, air temps etc.... and considering were talkn maybe a few HP gain any of those variables cheated wud make a back to back test worthless.

I rolled my buddys Busa across his garage the other day and I was amazed at how easy his bike was to move. its a Turbo busa like mine and weighed about the same as mine id expect or close to it. I have a heavier and bigger Turbo but he had stock wheels and I had aluminums so were close in weight he laughed at stated yea that was the first thing he noticed wen the ceramic bearings went in was how easy and smooth his bike rolled off the trailer.

I know one thing for sure.... they don't make the bike any SLOWER.....:whistle:
 
One mag years ago did a back to back test using a GSXR750 or 1000 cant remember .
 
In industry, we use ceramic bearings in places where replacement is difficult and we want mega hours before we pull machines apart for bearing replacement.

Some things you need to know about ceramic bearings. The friction is not between the balls and the inner and outer races on the inside of the cups, as there is always a lubrication film in-between the friction surfaces. The free spinning and loss of friction you see in ceramic bearings is due to the fact that they need almost no lubrication, meaning a very thin film of light machine oil is sufficient for low friction applications. Put normal grease into a ceramic bearing and there is absolutely no friction advantage, other than increased bearing life. Then there is sealing of the bearing, which in most cases produces more drag than the balls and races themselves. To really get low friction, they compromise on the seals, which negates the reliability issue in normal non specialized use.

About the "perceived" easy pushing and faster bikes with ceramic bearings, all I know is that my Busa rides a lot smoother and feels a lot faster just after I cleaned and polished it. The human brain is amazing at deceiving reality.

Any one who believes spinning a set of motorcycle wheels can lose 3 hp just on wheel bearing friction, is simply a not technically schooled individual. Apologies for being blunt and calling a spade a spade.
 
In industry, we use ceramic bearings in places where replacement is difficult and we want mega hours before we pull machines apart for bearing replacement.

Some things you need to know about ceramic bearings. The friction is not between the balls and the inner and outer races on the inside of the cups, as there is always a lubrication film in-between the friction surfaces. The free spinning and loss of friction you see in ceramic bearings is due to the fact that they need almost no lubrication, meaning a very thin film of light machine oil is sufficient for low friction applications. Put normal grease into a ceramic bearing and there is absolutely no friction advantage, other than increased bearing life. Then there is sealing of the bearing, which in most cases produces more drag than the balls and races themselves. To really get low friction, they compromise on the seals, which negates the reliability issue in normal non specialized use.

About the "perceived" easy pushing and faster bikes with ceramic bearings, all I know is that my Busa rides a lot smoother and feels a lot faster just after I cleaned and polished it. The human brain is amazing at deceiving reality.

Any one who believes spinning a set of motorcycle wheels can lose 3 hp just on wheel bearing friction, is simply a not technically schooled individual. Apologies for being blunt and calling a spade a spade.

What I'm hearing is if you assemble the wheel and pack the bearing with wheel bearing grease you are wasting your time performance wise, except for durability. If you do not pack your bearings and seals, water intrusion would definitely be a problem and your seals would not last but a few miles with out lubrication. Anyone rolling with ceramics care to add some insight?

Personally, they're just too much money for what they are. Don't see the value.
 
What I'm hearing is if you assemble the wheel and pack the bearing with wheel bearing grease you are wasting your time performance wise, except for durability. If you do not pack your bearings and seals, water intrusion would definitely be a problem and your seals would not last but a few miles with out lubrication. Anyone rolling with ceramics care to add some insight?

Personally, they're just too much money for what they are. Don't see the value.

In a jet engine turbine, they are pretty useful due to the high rotational speed. The balls are a lot lighter. So in any very high RPM scenario, that is the way to go. But wheel-bearings are left for those smart marketing guys, who know how to tell you something that makes you believe and feel really good about the money you spent.
 
About the "perceived" easy pushing and faster bikes with ceramic bearings, all I know is that my Busa rides a lot smoother and feels a lot faster just after I cleaned and polished it. The human brain is amazing at deceiving reality.

Any one who believes spinning a set of motorcycle wheels can lose 3 hp just on wheel bearing friction, is simply a not technically schooled individual. Apologies for being blunt and calling a spade a spade.
lmao.... I didn't know he had ceramic bearings in his wheels. I simply commented to him that it moves so easy now with less friction and he stated "yea I put ceramic bearings in it last week" so I guess ur "Perceived" theory is out the window isn't it?:whistle:

you keep avoiding the question..... why does every PST or Real Street racer use them? must be that "Perceived" human brain thing again huh..... lol

um yea with reduced friction in the wheels, motor and tranny with ceramic bearings you will absolutely gain 3 hp if not more so no offense but its YOU that is not technically schooled here. nice try trying to sound smart but you missed the boat by a mile!

Ceramic bearing don't GIVE anyone horsepower. they require less power to move due to reduced drag therefore fees up HP. probably 1-2%. doesn't sound like much for a bike like yours I'm sure that isn't making more then 200 hp but my bike will make 600 hp so do the math..... its not rocket science....:whistle:

ppl like you get their panties in a knot wen someone talks about the little things ppl do to free up HP. its not ONE little thing that makes the difference. its 10 little things that make the difference like ceramic bearings, lighter wheels, lighter swing arm, electric water pump, etc..... they all FREE up hp.

and if ceramic bearing don't work for anyone then why is World Wide still in business? I mean chit, according to you they shud just close their doors and issue everyone a refund cause their products simply don't work and their scamming everyone....
 
lmao.... I didn't know he had ceramic bearings in his wheels. I simply commented to him that it moves so easy now with less friction and he stated "yea I put ceramic bearings in it last week" so I guess ur "Perceived" theory is out the window isn't it?:whistle:

you keep avoiding the question..... why does every PST or Real Street racer use them? must be that "Perceived" human brain thing again huh..... lol

um yea with reduced friction in the wheels, motor and tranny with ceramic bearings you will absolutely gain 3 hp if not more so no offense but its YOU that is not technically schooled here. nice try trying to sound smart but you missed the boat by a mile!

Ceramic bearing don't GIVE anyone horsepower. they require less power to move due to reduced drag therefore fees up HP. probably 1-2%. doesn't sound like much for a bike like yours I'm sure that isn't making more then 200 hp but my bike will make 600 hp so do the math..... its not rocket science....:whistle:

ppl like you get their panties in a knot wen someone talks about the little things ppl do to free up HP. its not ONE little thing that makes the difference. its 10 little things that make the difference like ceramic bearings, lighter wheels, lighter swing arm, electric water pump, etc..... they all FREE up hp.

and if ceramic bearing don't work for anyone then why is World Wide still in business? I mean chit, according to you they shud just close their doors and issue everyone a refund cause their products simply don't work and their scamming everyone....

Where in your motor did you use ceramic, or nitrided balls with hard cups? If it is anywhere else but your crankshaft, there will be zero difference, as the same oil, will produce the same oil film, there is no metal to metal, or nitrided balls to hardened metal contact. The bearings in your motor are running on an oil film. The crank is different, as it has a wide surface.

Again, in your gearbox, if you use the same oil there will be nada difference.

Your buddies who are spending a fortune on this, do what most do. They listen to the marketing folks and throw every possible gismo in, with the hope that they go faster. Some add up, some don't

BTW, you have a contradiction in your last post, but we understand what you mean.

PS. I don't get my panties in a knot, but I know BS when I see it. Also, it is NEVER important for me to be correct. Show me facts supported by data and I will change my opinion.
 
I see you keep avoiding the question.... for the 3rd time now....."Why does every pro rider as well as every competitive LSR on the planet have them on their bike?" you don't seem to want to answer such a basic question? I guess you think they just put them in there cause they don't work and they like to waste money..... lol

I agree my buddy cud have spend money elsewhere to gain HP. he, unlike me is taped out with bolt ons or additional motor improvements which is why I have decided to do the wheel bearings last. already did motor and transmission bearings kit since they had to be done wen everything was apart.

not to mention ceramic bearing will last far longer.

Where in your motor did you use ceramic, or nitrided balls with hard cups? If it is anywhere else but your crankshaft, there will be zero difference, as the same oil, will produce the same oil film, there is no metal to metal, or nitrided balls to hardened metal contact. The bearings in your motor are running on an oil film. The crank is different, as it has a wide surface.

Again, in your gearbox, if you use the same oil there will be nada difference.

Your buddies who are spending a fortune on this, do what most do. They listen to the marketing folks and throw every possible gismo in, with the hope that they go faster. Some add up, some don't

BTW, you have a contradiction in your last post, but we understand what you mean.

PS. I don't get my panties in a knot, but I know BS when I see it. Also, it is NEVER important for me to be correct. Show me facts supported by data and I will change my opinion.
 
I see you keep avoiding the question.... for the 3rd time now....."Why does every pro rider as well as every competitive LSR on the planet have them on their bike?" you don't seem to want to answer such a basic question?

You missed it. I answered it in the third paragraph.
 
So why not take a bike and dyno it to get the RWHP. Then add ceramic bearings to the rear wheel and Dyno it again? Wouldn't that prove the benefit of ceramic over steel? Of course the drag on the front would be an added benefit but it would prove conclusively whether this is poop or not. Why haven't the ceramic guys done this? It would only cost about $1000.
 
So why not take a bike and dyno it to get the RWHP. Then add ceramic bearings to the rear wheel and Dyno it again? Wouldn't that prove the benefit of ceramic over steel? Of course the drag on the front would be an added benefit but it would prove conclusively whether this is poop or not. Why haven't the ceramic guys done this? It would only cost about $1000.

Because when you look at small power increases on a dyno, such as 3hp on a 180 hp bike, there are too many other variables that will affect the reading. This will make it impossible to accurately see the difference without a tremendous amount of technical preparation.

Examples:

Do dyno run one and the the rear tire heats up. Do dyno run two, there is now more air pressure due to higher temperature, the rolling resistance will be less and you will pull an extra few ponies.

Barometric pressure is not the same day to day, so if you do it a month later, or the next day, you have to use a math correction factor. This is never very accurate.

Then there is the calibration of the dyno to 3/180 = 1.7% accuracy or better that is needed.

There are other factors also.

What the OP misses is that everything runs on an oil film, or otherwise it self destructs in a matter of minutes. The friction is mainly determined by the viscosity and film strength, or lubricity of the oil. With ceramic wheel bearing the difference is the fact that they are not lubricated with grease, which is why the video shows the wheel spinning much longer. Also, they design the seals to rub as little as possible.
 
What the OP misses is that everything runs on an oil film, or otherwise it self destructs in a matter of minutes. The friction is mainly determined by the viscosity and film strength, or lubricity of the oil. With ceramic wheel bearing the difference is the fact that they are not lubricated with grease, which is why the video shows the wheel spinning much longer. Also, they design the seals to rub as little as possible.
so why does everyone competing use them then? yes EVERY single pro racer on any level of motorcycle drag racing uses them. if their so useless then why do they all use them?
 
What the OP misses is that everything runs on an oil film, or otherwise it self destructs in a matter of minutes. The friction is mainly determined by the viscosity and film strength, or lubricity of the oil. With ceramic wheel bearing the difference is the fact that they are not lubricated with grease, which is why the video shows the wheel spinning much longer. Also, they design the seals to rub as little as possible.
so why does everyone competing use them then? yes EVERY single pro racer on any level of motorcycle drag racing uses them. if their so useless then why do they all use them?

the resistence in the spinning wheel PROVES that there is less friction. how much it equates to is anyones guess but the FACT still remains its less resistance which equates to HP gain period!
 
so why does everyone competing use them then? yes EVERY single pro racer on any level of motorcycle drag racing uses them. if their so useless then why do they all use them?

the resistence in the spinning wheel PROVES that there is less friction. how much it equates to is anyones guess but the FACT still remains its less resistance which equates to HP gain period!

You are not reading my posts, as you keep asking the same questions which I answered and I already explained why the wheel keeps spinning.

From a drag racing perspective, where several more times the power comes out of a motor compared to its original design, there is a reliability advantage. The nitrided balls are extremely hard and we do not have two similar metal surfaces separated by a thin protective oil film which may fail under extreme forces and pressure. If the oil film fails on a nitrided ball bearing, the hardened steel cup offers tremendous resistance to gouging or wear, even to the extent where the nitrided (ceramic) balls may smooth out damaged areas. So, if you are pushing 600hp on a Busa motor, that is probably a smart thing to do. The hp gains is BS. Or as you said the saved hp (same thing) due to drag is BS. It is negligible.
 
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