Opinions from you mapping experts

[fallenarch]

I have an 09 Hayabusa with a Yoshimura r-77 full exhaust. I had it dyno tuned but have been studying the dyno chart and something looks fishy to me. Notice the dip in power in the 4-5K area. There is even less power than the bike had with stock header, R-77 slipons, and a can Akcropovic map. Does this look like a bad map job or is this just something common to the R-77? I sent this to Yoshimura but no response really, they just said the max power was ball-park.

What do you guys think. It's interesting because a big share of the street riding goes on around 4-5K so a dip here is not the end of the world but still not optimal.

 

[beachz]

Subscribed...

 

[methyman]

What are you using to tune the bike? If its ECU editor, I have a map from a member (bigblue) R77 full exhaust with stock air filter, that had his bike tuned by Johnny Cheese. I can email it to you if you want. Just pm you email address.

 

[fallenarch]

It was dyno tuned. I just think the guy quit tuning when he got to this area and before I go back to them to make them get it right I wanted to get some opinions on whether or not it was really wrong.

 

[methyman]

You could try the map and see if there is a difference! You are using the ECU editor?

 

[fallenarch]

No Methyman, I'm using a PCV. I don't really think trading maps is optimal because it does not take into account the many differences that exist in individual bikes. I know lots of people do it and it won't hurt the bike but the whole purpose of tuning the bike is to get that specific bike running optimally. I plan to go to the ECU editor once I work out all the issues with the automatic tuning feature of the Boostbysmith setup, hopefully in the fall. I don't frankly see the benifit of ECU editing unless you can get someone to do it with a dyno (there are other settings such as 6th gear maps and rev limits, etc.) and if I did that I would still be working with the same dyno tuner in my area.

The bike runs fine as tuned, I just don't think the tuning was done as well as it could have been specifically in the 4-5K area.

BTW: I'm also running a K&N filter. Also thanks, methyman - I don't want it to seem like I am not greatful for your offer to help

 

[methyman]

We are all here to help each other! I use the ecu editor on my bike and like the ability to do most things myself. I have a tuner close by that know how to use the ecu editor but I haven't gone to him to get tuned till I decide if I am going to keep the R77 exhaust or change it. Thinking about Brock's exhaust.

 

[fallenarch]

We are all here to help each other! I use the ecu editor on my bike and like the ability to do most things myself. I have a tuner close by that know how to use the ecu editor but I haven't gone to him to get tuned till I decide if I am going to keep the R77 exhaust or change it. Thinking about Brock's exhaust.

So how do you know what you AF ratios are at various rpm without a dyno? Are you using someone else's map on the ECU and then tweaking it? How do you know it's working or not?

 

[card16969]

The spot 3-4k is where its first coming on the power and dips isnt uncommon for it to have a bit of a low spot before it picks up hard at low rpm's if this was at say 7-8k i would be worried. But if you look at your map its pretty smooth and coming on the throttle at 3k you are cruising and starting to crank on the power so theres a little bit of a delay in power response due to the instant start of dumping fuel. Yes it slightly drops below the other map but look at the increase of power afterwards you are gaining alot more and also remember this is just 2 select runs every single time you twist that throttle on a dyno the operator can get slightly different response. Believe it or not its not easy getting consistant runs on a dyno it actually becomes a skill. You can run 5 consecutive runs with the same operator and all slightly having different entrance and exit points on the run thats where the consistancy and skill comes into play. Also dont only look at the power curve because thats just reading what your motor and mods are capable of look at the air to fuel line, you want that as close to the goal of 13 as you can possibly get. In the previous run it goes from lean to fat and on the final run it goes from a little fat burp to pretty dam close to on the line so its right where you want it. Also remember these lines will change every time you run, hour to hour and day to day depending on the conditions. Im not an expert but i was trained how to run a dyno at mmi and we made alot of runs to teach us the basics and i will give a good tuner credit any day because its not an easy thing to do. In my opinion i dont see a problem with the map, you could be a little closer to your idea a/f of 13 but that could take hundreds of runs and cost you a fortune for a miniscule difference that you will never notice.

 

[methyman]

I was using the stock map and it had a bad flat spot around 3000 rpm. I asked for a map on the org and I got one that a well known tuner Johnny Cheese did. I compared it to the stock map and saw the changes made, especially at 3000 rpm where I was had the flat spot. Put it in and the bike road so much better. I have been playing with the ECU editor, removed limiters, raised rpm, installed quick shifter and tweaking secondary throttle plates to open the same in all gears. I have removed limiters on a few GSXR1000's and the owners noticed immediately as soon as they road it. Don't know what AF is but it runs so good.

 

[card16969]

I was using the stock map and it had a bad flat spot around 3000 rpm. I asked for a map on the org and I got one that a well known tuner Johnny Cheese did. I compared it to the stock map and saw the changes made, especially at 3000 rpm where I was had the flat spot. Put it in and the bike road so much better. I have been playing with the ECU editor, removed limiters, raised rpm, installed quick shifter and tweaking secondary throttle plates to open the same in all gears. I have removed limiters on a few GSXR1000's and the owners noticed immediately as soon as they road it. Don't know what AF is but it runs so good.

as long as your not messing with the fueling without a way to check it and log it your fine but as soon as you change your fueling without a way to check it and log it your putting your motor in detrimental risk

 

[Merlot]

No Methyman, I'm using a PCV. I don't really think trading maps is optimal because it does not take into account the many differences that exist in individual bikes. I know lots of people do it and it won't hurt the bike but the whole purpose of tuning the bike is to get that specific bike running optimally. I plan to go to the ECU editor once I work out all the issues with the automatic tuning feature of the Boostbysmith setup, hopefully in the fall. I don't frankly see the benifit of ECU editing unless you can get someone to do it with a dyno (there are other settings such as 6th gear maps and rev limits, etc.) and if I did that I would still be working with the same dyno tuner in my area.

The bike runs fine as tuned, I just don't think the tuning was done as well as it could have been specifically in the 4-5K area.

BTW: I'm also running a K&N filter. Also thanks, methyman - I don't want it to seem like I am not greatful for your offer to help

Some say K&N filter gives lesser hp than stock through dyno numbers.Many recommend BMC instead though.

 

[fallenarch]

Some say K&N filter gives lesser hp than stock through dyno numbers.Many recommend BMC instead though.

Yes, this is true. I am not saying the K&N is better than anything else. It may have more air-flow resistance than stock but I don't believe this from my experience. I do know it's a much better filter than stock - just clean the stock on a few times if you don't believe me. The BMC seems to be the better performer but it really looks/feels thin for street use.

 

[Amode]

I will voice my oppion on this. You can not take your bike and put it on a dyno and expect it to run. It does not matter what exhaust you run. Yes the stock ones run good for a short dist. They have flat spots in ceartin areas. yes if you look at all the maps Inj, Stp, Timeing, Fuel you will see were the problems are. So if anybody wants to see my map the one i run i my bike its okay. then you will see what i mean about the settings. You cannot tune the bus up with the stock settings it just does not work.

 

[nitro71455]

Id say the dip is from it being a bit Fat there, the AFR follows the same dip.

Main thing At the RPM is not 100% TPS tho. It's not very often the bike is at WOT from 3 to 4k is it? If its more of a WTH then I'd just take some fuel away in that range and you will see the power come up.