Replace Head Gasket????

[whitechocolate]

First off i have search the forms till my finger were blue and really can't seem to find what i am looking for. So this is the situation!! My bike has been sitting for about 3 months, started it up and the oil like was blinking( never has done that before) so i shut her off. Looked down at the the oil glass and looked like a milk shake(and there was no water in radiatior but plenty in the reserve tank). So i took her apart and i am draining the oil and filled the radiator.

Now i know for my car days that it sounds like a blown head gasket, but want to see if anyone has other ideas. also would like to know how hard it is to change? Do i need to drop the motor? I have the shop and it doesn't look overwhelming, but should i just take it to the shop?

Any help would be nice!!!! Want to get her back on the road before Madi Gras lease: lease:

 

[BA BUSA]

What year and how many miles ???

 

[BA BUSA]

Prior to this have you ever had the radiator cap off...or flushed the system ???

 

[whitechocolate]

It is a 02 with 21k on it. i haven't the cap of or flushed the system since 05. but have change the oil a coulple of times.

 

[BA BUSA]

It is a 02 with 21k on it. i haven't the cap of or flushed the system since 05. but have change the oil a coulple of times.

Because you did not have the cap off for 3+ years the radiator level might just have gone down (normal)...the milky oil could be from condensation.

Change the oil and filter, top off the radiator...burp it if it was really low. Then run it for a while to burn out the rest of the water in the crankcase. After you run it 10-15 minutes or so, shut it off and remove the oil cap...you might get some steam coming out of the crank case. Leave the cap off and let the bike cool for a few hours. After it cools completely, check the coolant level in the radiator, put the oil cap back on...and run it again 10-15 minutes.

You may have to do this a few times to get the sight glass to clear up. Now if the radiator is low after the first time you do this...you might just have a air bubble and need to burp the system. If the sight glass doesn't clear up and the radiator keeps needing water...you might have a bad head gasket.

If you didn't have overheating problems before you parked the bike, I don't think you have a bad head gasket.

 

[Mike C]

Because you did not have the cap off for 3+ years the radiator level might just have gone down (normal)...the milky oil could be from condensation.

Change the oil and filter, top off the radiator...burp it if it was really low. Then run it for a while to burn out the rest of the water in the crankcase. After you run it 10-15 minutes or so, shut it off and remove the oil cap...you might get some steam coming out of the crank case. Leave the cap off and let the bike cool for a few hours. After it cools completely, check the coolant level in the radiator, put the oil cap back on...and run it again 10-15 minutes.

You may have to do this a few times to get the sight glass to clear up. Now if the radiator is low after the first time you do this...you might just have a air bubble and need to burp the system. If the sight glass doesn't clear up and the radiator keeps needing water...you might have a bad head gasket.

If you didn't have overheating problems before you parked the bike, I don't think you have a bad head gasket.

I'd also try this 1st.

 

[whitechocolate]

Thanks for the advice i will try it see what happens. one thing though i have fille the radiator up twice already and doesn't seem to be keeping water in it. When i stand the bike straight up a lil more fluid come out but cant tell if it oil or water, but it looks like it is mostly water.

I didn't mean to say i haven't had the cap off since 05, i just hadn't flushed it, i know i check the fluid mid summer when i was over heating a little. But i am in mississippi and just chalked up to the extreme heat.

 

[omslaw]

Yep - give the above a shot first.

If you still have problems and it looks like the head gasket, it's not too hard. Yes, you'll need to drop the motor, but it's not too bad to do. I've had the motor out and head off mine 3x now. This will be the first year that I'm NOT tearing it apart! (chased a cracked head for 3 years )

If you're mechanically inclined and since you have the shop manual, I'd do it myself. :2cents:

 

[BA BUSA]

Thanks for the advice i will try it see what happens. one thing though i have fille the radiator up twice already and doesn't seem to be keeping water in it. When i stand the bike straight up a lil more fluid come out but cant tell if it oil or water, but it looks like it is mostly water.

I didn't mean to say i haven't had the cap off since 05, i just hadn't flushed it, i know i check the fluid mid summer when i was over heating a little. But i am in mississippi and just chalked up to the extreme heat.

Do you have a stand that you can put the bike on so it sits up straight? Since you said that you did have some overheating issues last summer...I would put a clean drain pan under the bike and fill the radiator again...if you are getting water out of the crank case...you've got a problem

 

[whitechocolate]

So sounds like i might be getting into some real fun here. always said i wanted to drop the motor just to see if i could

One question is there any chance that it could be something with the water pump?

I just find it funny, couple of months of go i was riding back and forth to work.(no problems and i checked the oil becuase i thought i should change it) She gets put up for a few months and the first crank... all this mess. Any ideas on how it might have happened? ??? ???

 

[BA BUSA]

Not the water pump. See if you can get the radiator topped off...if it will stay full, then change the oil and filter and run the engine like I said.

 

[whitechocolate]

Ok i will try it in the morning... thank for all the Help.

 

[BusaWizard]

Do all your checks first.

 

[AJAY]

Do all your checks first.

Ditto. Good gawd, guys, he needs to do a compression test before anything else that has been suggested.

* Pull your plug caps,
* Use compressed air to blow out the holes (a duster can will work if you don't have an air compressor)
* Pull all four plugs
* Do a compression test on each cylinder.

Given that you think you have water in your oil, you would have either a leaking head gasket (most probable) or a cracked head. A simple compression test should be sufficient. A tester is like $25 at any auto parts store if you don't have one. You don't need the fancier leak-down tester to diagnose this one.

You want to pull all four plugs so you don't run down your puny Busa battery cranking it during the tests. Report your results back here.

Good luck!

 

[whitechocolate]

well i am going to the store tonight and buying some oil and filter... will pick the tester up and see... will let you know the out come, just as soon i as i get it done.

 

[AJAY]

well i am going to the store tonight and buying some oil and filter... will pick the tester up and see... will let you know the out come, just as soon i as i get it done.

Skip the oil and filter until you do the compression test. Ok, go ahead and buy them, but don't change the oil or anything until you do the compression test. If you end up having to replace the head gasket, you will want to change the oil anyway after you put in the new head gasket.

 

[hooken203]

I know I am getting into this late.But here goes. You said that the oil level glass looked like a milk shake did the oil you drained out look this way? Was the radiator really empty or just low? Skip the compression test it will prove nothing. The compression test will prove if the gasket is blown between cylinders. If it was you would also have a bad miss. It might prove if you have a blown head gasket to the cooling system. Thats a big MIGHT. If you had a gasket that was blown and leaking to the cooling system two things will happen you will get coolant in the cylinder when the bike sits overnight and you will also have a large amount of pressure in the cooling system. You can have a head gasket that is leaking coolant to an oil passage and will not show in a compression test. I have seen my own bike have a small look of milky looking stuff when it sits for a while. Normal. So what did the oil look like when you drained it out?

 

[AJAY]

I know I am getting into this late.But here goes. You said that the oil level glass looked like a milk shake did the oil you drained out look this way? Was the radiator really empty or just low? Skip the compression test it will prove nothing. The compression test will prove if the gasket is blown between cylinders. If it was you would also have a bad miss. It might prove if you have a blown head gasket to the cooling system. Thats a big MIGHT. If you had a gasket that was blown and leaking to the cooling system two things will happen you will get coolant in the cylinder when the bike sits overnight and you will also have a large amount of pressure in the cooling system. You can have a head gasket that is leaking coolant to an oil passage and will not show in a compression test. I have seen my own bike have a small look of milky looking stuff when it sits for a while. Normal. So what did the oil look like when you drained it out?

Does the Busa cooling system go into the cylinder jackets? Does it also go through the head? (think about it)

I've never had the head off the Busa motor and I don't have a diagram in front of me. With that said, the head gasket ON MOST ENGINES not only seals the cylinder compression, it also seals the coolant paths and the oil galleys. Given that the coolant is low and the oil is milkshake, it implies that there is a leak between the oil and the water paths (typically in through the cylinders, not through the oil galleys). I have seen many engines with small leaks run pretty well with blown head gaskets, pouring white steam out the exhaust.

A compression test is cheap AND easy to do. If the compression is poor on one or more cylinders (say something like 180, 177, 110, 175), you need a head gasket no matter what. If the test is good (all compressions high and even), you blew $25 on a tester and an hour time and now will feel much better about your engine.

Couple of other points:
1) You will be very unlikely to recognize the leaking part of the gasket from either oil or water flows. Many times the gasket looks perfectly fine.


2) If you do need to replace the head gasket, check out the head before reinstalling it. Check the flatness and have it pressure tested for cracks.

3) Have your radiator pressure tested or just replace it with a known-good radiator. It is very common for the high-compression gas from the cylinders to flow through the leak into the cooling system and blow out the seals in the radiator. You won't be able to tell by visual inspection, so you have to pressure test it.

 

[AJAY]

P.S. I do completely agree with Hooken that you should look at the oil coming out. But I would never even try to start an engine that I suspected of a bad head gasket. If the seal is broken and coolant is leaking into the cylinder, you risk hydra-locking the engine. The water in the cylinder will not compress like normal gas/air and when the engine cranks you can bend a rod or worse, making a simple head gasket replacement into a full engine teardown.

 

[hooken203]

My friend AJAY? I have thought about it in fact I think about this almost everyday. A compression test will prove nothing when you are trying to diagnose a head gasket unless it is between cylinders and you will not see it in the oil. You can have coolant passing from coolant passage to oil passage and never go into the cylinder and yes you can see it on the gasket or the block or head surface if you know what your looking for. You can have a crack in the head that can cross into an oil return passage and never make it to the cylinder. If the coolant is making it into the cylinder in a small amount that will not hydraulic lock the motor you may never see it in the oil because it gets burnt. You can have a crack in an intake port and coolant getting into cylinder never hydraulic lock it and never see it in the oil. Just ask omslaw. Not saying your wrong but.