secondary butterflies?

secondary butterflies i think i remembered reading something about in mode A they're always open or 3/4 way open... my question is has anyone just took them out? since i never put it into mode B or C and i would think taking them out would increase airflow. what does everyone think? thanks
 
secondary butterflies i think i remembered reading something about in mode A they're always open or 3/4 way open... my question is has anyone just took them out? since i never put it into mode B or C and i would think taking them out would increase airflow. what does everyone think? thanks

i would not mess with it. it changes your fuel ratio and can run lean or rich and can causes damage in long term to engine unless you use the pc to map it correctly.( good luck with getting that map right)
i have done it to my 07 zx14 and pull the seondary flies out because 06,07 zx14 is very flat up to 6000 rpm. it changes your fuel ratio and can be corrected some with pc and good map.
busa has excellent powerband in any rpm. my 2 cents is you are wasting your money and time... or you can do it and let us know the outcome! :laugh:
 
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:rofl:

All of you that say DON'T take them out I can assume you have not tried this.....

Mine are out.... I did it the same time I did my Ram-Air mod

I have a PCIII USB that I have trimmed to a Yosi 4-1 carbon on the dyno with the help of my Innovate SSI-4. This summer during dyno days the 99-08 Busa’s were lined up and guess who's pulled the highest HP that hot afternoon at 6000'? I had no more mods than any other 08 and there were some pretty tricked out early model Busa’s that had their ass handed to them. (no turbos, no NOS)

I can give you the phone number of the service manager at Grand Prix Motorsports if you’re interested. He stood right there and wasn't surprised at all by my numbers.

I have never used any other mode but A so there is no need for my secondary injectors to be spraying into a throttle plate when the fuel could be mixing in the throttle bore with high velocity air. In my personal opinion, that entire system was a waste of funds that could have gone elsewhere. I have been riding for 33 years and never fallen on my ass because the bike was too much for me to handle.

By all means, I am not telling anyone to remove them but to say: "don't mess with it...... you'll be sorry"

I have an Aprilia Direct Injected SR50cc scooter that came into this country doing only 35 mph. It has now recorded 73 mph and I am installing a custom built Holley Nitrous Oxide system on it right now. I have developed my own adjustable fuel system for it, trimmed it with the Innovate SSI-4 and given it the ability to breath.

It's all in knowing what you’re doing... You just can't add parts and take off parts and expect to see results.

A couple pics of my tweaked Aprilia engine

attachment.php?attachmentid=96987&stc=1&d=1226983776.jpg


attachment.php?attachmentid=96985&stc=1&d=1226983759.jpg
 
:rofl:

All of you that say DON'T take them out I can assume you have not tried this.....

Mine are out.... I did it the same time I did my Ram-Air mod






i am courios if you have done any dyno test to see where you gained power and torque after modification. i know this was long long discussion in zx14 forum about secondary fly and alot of people including myself took it out and with correct map we improve the low rpm power and torque. the biggest challenge was the fuel ratio to adjusted to the point of not running lean or rich.
where do you thing you have gain power and has it change any throttle response?
 
So how much hp did your '08 make after the mods and did it affect rideability?

The only negative "rideability" this will affect is if you switch it to B or C mode..... this is expected.

Positive front wheel lifting results start at 6000 RPM on up. Bottom end results are also very noticable. If you’re at a high altitude as I am you need every advantage you can get to get air into your bike. If you own a bike here or have climbed 6000' from your starting point you know exactly what I mean.

Here are the correction values for your bikes compression at altitude.

Altitude Factor
1000 .9711
2000 .9428
3000 .9151
4000 .8881
5000 .8617
6000 .8359
7000 .8106
8000 .7860


I don't have a dyno run before but a very large comparison between 19 total Busa’s and a lot full of lower liter bikes. Half a dozen 08 Busa's ran on the same dyno at the same altitude on the same day by the same operator... one after another. If there was ever a way to compare bikes, that's it.

Owners were discouraged with their results because they were expecting what magazines are posting or other owners at lower altitudes. They didn't understand we have about 16% less power to work with.

102876-very-pleased-dyno-run-dynosm.jpg
 
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ToXSICK Did you already tock to Brock? If so clue us in so he is not flooded with calls on the same subject.:rulez:
 
:rofl:

All of you that say DON'T take them out I can assume you have not tried this.....

Mine are out.... I did it the same time I did my Ram-Air mod

I have a PCIII USB that I have trimmed to a Yosi 4-1 carbon on the dyno with the help of my Innovate SSI-4. This summer during dyno days the 99-08 Busa’s were lined up and guess who's pulled the highest HP that hot afternoon at 6000'? I had no more mods than any other 08 and there were some pretty tricked out early model Busa’s that had their ass handed to them. (no turbos, no NOS)

I can give you the phone number of the service manager at Grand Prix Motorsports if you’re interested. He stood right there and wasn't surprised at all by my numbers.

I have never used any other mode but A so there is no need for my secondary injectors to be spraying into a throttle plate when the fuel could be mixing in the throttle bore with high velocity air. In my personal opinion, that entire system was a waste of funds that could have gone elsewhere. I have been riding for 33 years and never fallen on my ass because the bike was too much for me to handle.

By all means, I am not telling anyone to remove them but to say: "don't mess with it...... you'll be sorry"

I have an Aprilia Direct Injected SR50cc scooter that came into this country doing only 35 mph. It has now recorded 73 mph and I am installing a custom built Holley Nitrous Oxide system on it right now. I have developed my own adjustable fuel system for it, trimmed it with the Innovate SSI-4 and given it the ability to breath.

It's all in knowing what you’re doing... You just can't add parts and take off parts and expect to see results.

A couple pics of my tweaked Aprilia engine

attachment.php?attachmentid=96987&stc=1&d=1226983776.jpg


attachment.php?attachmentid=96985&stc=1&d=1226983759.jpg

WOW, very interesting high gain :beerchug: Out of all the forums and topics on removing the secondary throttle blades on gen2(and lord knows theres been ALOT of them)you are the frist one i have heard positive gains from. Very exciting to say the least, would loved to see what kind of "real" number differences it makes. Problem is only one way to measure it "seat of your pants o-meter". Keep up the good work high gain, love reading about people going against the grain.....even if its my own! Nothing but good things come from it :beerchug: :bowdown:
 
Questions:
1) Is if necessary to run a PCIII when removing the seconday's ?
2) Rather than remove the secondaries, wouldn't the same benefit be achieved via a TRE ? ???
 
I rode a friends 06 14 stock, and then again after he put a pc3 on it and pulled his secondaries. It made a HUGE difference :thumbsup: But it was also very soft on the low end stock. I can't see how an 08 busa wouldn't gain at least a little improvement with them out as well. Doesn't suzi mainly install them to soften the low end hit and cover their a**es?
 
Interesting, I've always read to leave them in. Any real world testing?
 
Questions:
1) Is if necessary to run a PCIII when removing the seconday's ?
If you don't already run a PCIII or some other box, I wouldn't bother to remove them. Your O2 does not trim for fuel above 80% throttle opening.

2) Rather than remove the secondaries, wouldn't the same benefit be achieved via a TRE ? ???
How does a TRE unrestrict air flow ??? (T.R.E. Timing Retard Eliminator)

Hey BusaWizard... How have you been?
 
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If you don't already run a PCIII or some other box, I wouldn't bother to remove them. Your O2 does not trim for fuel above 80% throttle opening.

How does a TRE unrestrict air flow ??? (T.R.E. Timing Retard Eliminator)

Hey BusaWizard... How have you been?
On the 14's the tre locks the bikes mapping in a higher gear, and since the flies open quicker in the higher gears than in the lower ones, they end up opening quicker in all the gears, and do give a noticeable increase in the low end in lower gears as well. I also rode my buds 14 with a tre :laugh: he wanted his 14 to pull as hard down low as my 1st gen busa. I'm not sure if the 2nd gen busa is set up similiar to the 14, but I think it would be? The difference between the tre on his 14 and his flies out was still very big though :laugh:
 
I did some research on the zx14 as I was going to buy one but got an 08 carryover Haybusa instead. According to every forum on that bike it is a great thing to do if you want more power. You do, however, need a PC3 to fix the fuel map curve and air/fuel ratio. Dynojet has several maps on their website to download for flies out on the ninja and none on the hayabusa. I was just wondering if anyone knew why exactly? I understand that you would need correction from the PC3 if you take the flies out on the suzuki but no one has maps for it yet. Does anyone have any definite info or dyno charts to show when this has been done. Is it possible that it was done many times and there was no noticeable gain by doing it? I know I would trust Brock's performance over most anyone on this subject but haven't heard from them on this subject on this bike. Anyone talk to them about this?
 
I've had them in and out a couple times with my DL-1000 over the course of 35000 miles on it. I'd say leave them in.
 
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