turbo dyno question

[Hit Man]

I was talking to a guy the other day about a reflashed ecu on turbo bikes. He claimed the pc is better, because the intake temp sensor can correct the a/f ratio with the new power commander hub. Has any one seen a hp gain or loss or a change in air/fuel ratio using the temp. sensor on turbo street bikes? My Hahn kit does not have a bung to hook it up but I could weld one on if it will help it during the winter.
Has anyone tested the Hahn kit with Hahns black box Mapper connected and disconnected on a dyno? If I remove it what difference will it make? Hahns mapper is a mystery to me b/c other kits don't use it.

[ogre]

it's always safer to reflash. piggybacks are like a band aid for fueling, where a reflash or standalone will give you more accurate fueling control.

[LeDauz]

depending on your set up you might be looking at a better fuel system and larger injectors all togerther depending on what came with your hahn kit

[Hit Man]

I have the stage 1 kit with s2000 injectors, this guy is building a kit for his gixxer 750. I just want to know if the air temp sensor make adjustments that are going to gain or lose power or reliability.

[POWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by Hit Man

I was talking to a guy the other day about a reflashed ecu on turbo bikes. He claimed the pc is better, because the intake temp sensor can correct the a/f ratio with the new power commander hub. Has any one seen a hp gain or loss or a change in air/fuel ratio using the temp. sensor on turbo street bikes? My Hahn kit does not have a bung to hook it up but I could weld one on if it will help it during the winter.
Has anyone tested the Hahn kit with Hahns black box Mapper connected and disconnected on a dyno? If I remove it what difference will it make? Hahns mapper is a mystery to me b/c other kits don't use it.

First off, the intake air temperature (IAT) sensor DOES NOT do anything with a dynojet hub. For turbos, the dynojet hub in conjunction with a GM map sensor, can "boost reference" and gives you the ability to build a fuel map for higher boost pressures - it is very flexible, and works excellent when the right tuner does the job.

Reflashing the ECU has its advantages, but tuning is not one of them for many reasons. Yes, you can remove limiters, disable the IAT for turbos, change dwell times, increase rev limits, etc. - all good stuff. You are better off tuning with the powercommander and tuning link.

Hahn's black "mapper" box has nothing to do with mapping. The box serves to limit voltage produced by the bikes own map, which if left alone would throw an "FI" code because of boost pressure. If you disconnect it, that is exactly what it will do, unless you put a check valve in the signal hose to the bikes map sensor . . .

Please do yourself a big favor, and get with a local shop that has dealt with turbo bikes and knows what they are doing . . .

[Got-Busa?]

Originally Posted by POWERHOUSE

Reflashing the ECU has its advantages, but tuning is not one of them for many reasons. Yes, you can remove limiters, disable the IAT for turbos, change dwell times, increase rev limits, etc. - all good stuff. You are better off tuning with the powercommander and tuning link.

Do you mind explaining your opinion on this a little more...?

I just want to understand how a PC and tuning link is better...?

[POWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by Got-Busa?

Do you mind explaining your opinion on this a little more...?

I just want to understand how a PC and tuning link is better...?

Sure. The problem with ECU tuning is that you have to either go "cell by cell", or block certain sections and make changes. This puts an enormous stress on the motorcycle while you are trying to hold rpm and throttle position using the dyno brake. This is very similar to the PCII powercommanders, which is about three steps back - i.e., using yesterday's technology today. The other negative about ECU tuning is the inability to "read" the ECU - to go back in and look directly at the map you've created and make running changes. You have to save the map, make changes, and reflash every time you do something. For the tuner, this can turn one hour into three. Once you've spent all that time, if you ever have to go back in for any reason, you have no way of seeing what changes were made to the ECU.

When you tune with a Dynojet Powercommander, all changes are made in the powercommander itself, and no where else. You can see what you are doing while you do it and make running changes. You can use their tuning link software to "roll" the bike at various throttle positions while the bike gently goes through rpm, samples A/F, and automatically makes changes to reach the intended A/F target. Much easier on the bike, and more accurate. You can still make manual changes if you wish, but the A/F curves are straighter than anything you can achieve going cell by cell and everything happens much quicker.

Please note that I do flash ECUs all the time, but not for mapping purposes. ECU flashing is very useful, but right now, a powercommander is definately better from this tuner's viewpoint . . .

[Got-Busa?]

Originally Posted by POWERHOUSE

Sure. The problem with ECU tuning is that you have to either go "cell by cell", or block certain sections and make changes. This puts an enormous stress on the motorcycle while you are trying to hold rpm and throttle position using the dyno brake. This is very similar to the PCII powercommanders, which is about three steps back - i.e., using yesterday's technology today. The other negative about ECU tuning is the inability to "read" the ECU - to go back in and look directly at the map you've created and make running changes. You have to save the map, make changes, and reflash every time you do something. For the tuner, this can turn one hour into three. Once you've spent all that time, if you ever have to go back in for any reason, you have no way of seeing what changes were made to the ECU.

When you tune with a Dynojet Powercommander, all changes are made in the powercommander itself, and no where else. You can see what you are doing while you do it and make running changes. You can use their tuning link software to "roll" the bike at various throttle positions while the bike gently goes through rpm, samples A/F, and automatically makes changes to reach the intended A/F target. Much easier on the bike, and more accurate. You can still make manual changes if you wish, but the A/F curves are straighter than anything you can achieve going cell by cell and everything happens much quicker.

Please note that I do flash ECUs all the time, but not for mapping purposes. ECU flashing is very useful, but right now, a powercommander is definately better from this tuner's viewpoint . . .

Based on what you are saying, it's only easier and quicker for you but not better...?

[Johnnycheese]

tuning link sux for mapping espealing for boost bikes

[POWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by Johnnycheese

tuning link sux for mapping espealing for boost bikes

JC:

I mainly use tuning link for off-boost and steady-state areas. I like to get my boost target started early in the high throttle percentage areas, extrapolate the rest to redline, make pulls and manual adjustments. I then go back through and make sure all my off-boost targets are where I want them. I've been tuning over ten years, and I know you have a lot of experience as well. You just do things a little differently - apparently- which I well respect. What "sux" for you might work fine in different hands.

Still don't like that ECU tuning, though (IMHO) . . .

[POWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by Got-Busa?

Based on what you are saying, it's only easier and quicker for you but not better...?

I am saying that FOR ME, it is easier, quicker AND better . . .

[luisitoboost]

Hey Frank.

Glad to see your name here Fernando from PR

[turbobusa2000]

It's kinda refreshing to hear someone with a different opinion about the ecu flashing stuff.

[B@DA$$08BUS@]

Definitely, very good info being passed around here.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Johnnycheese]

Originally Posted by POWERHOUSE

JC:

I mainly use tuning link for off-boost and steady-state areas. I like to get my boost target started early in the high throttle percentage areas, extrapolate the rest to redline, make pulls and manual adjustments. I then go back through and make sure all my off-boost targets are where I want them. I've been tuning over ten years, and I know you have a lot of experience as well. You just do things a little differently - apparently- which I well respect. What "sux" for you might work fine in different hands.

Still don't like that ECU tuning, though (IMHO) . . .

sux as in if you are still going back to clean up areas why waste a step
and yes still not a fan of ecu tuning on turbo bike for ecu mapping due to it is you can not load and test at the same timed

[Commuta_Busa]

I do agree that not being able to make "running changes" is the downside when you compare ecu editor to a dynojet box. Granted, this means it takes more time to tune with the ecu editor. You're able to make more precise map changes with the ecu editor and all of the additional functionality puts it in it's own league. I would assume that all maps are saved to a harddrive as backup which means you can "see" what the tune is for the ECU at any time. If something goes wrong communicating with a dynojet box you would be out of luck too unless you saved the map to your hard drive.