TRE AND power commander?

[Scottrod]

Hey everyone! I bought a busa that apparently has a Checkered Flag Motorsports TRE on it (and it seems like a POS when I look at it). The prior owner said I shouldn't keep it on if i'm putting my PCIII onto the bike. Is this true?

ALSO...the bike is running pretty rich...kickin out black smoke sometimes. Could the TRE have something to do with it?

Also, with a PCIII can you still do top speed runs? I plan to take the bike somewhere to do a top speed run over 186mph some time and will the PCIII remove this limit or do I have to keep the TRE? If I can't keep the TRE on with the PCIII is there another way to remove the limiter?

Also, I have been thinking of replacing the speedo with a 220. Not because I'll be going that fast just because I want it for looks. When I take my bike to do a top speed run I'll be using a GPS. Where can I pick up a 220 speedo set?

 

[Professor]

99-00 Speedo will drop right in and read correctly (with the same error % as stock anyhow). Or you can get a face and adjust it with a speedohealer. However if you do the face speedohealer the mileage will not read exactly.

The PCIII will not defeat the limiter

Disconnect the TRE and see if it cleans it up. Different people have different opinions on if they work or not. Unless you have some mods and/or are a pretty light small guy, 186 mph is hard to break anyhow. There are other ways to break 186 without a TRE. The GPS mod to make it send 1N23455 instead of 1N23456 is (in my opinion) the best choice. If you prefer the way it performs with a TRE put in a switchable one and turn it on for your high speed run.

 

[Scottrod]

Since I can't have the TRE on at the same time as the PCIII is there another way to eliminate the speed limiter? Does the TRE actually DO anything besides remove the limiter?

Anyone selling a 99-00 speedo cluster or know where I can pick one up?

 

[Red05]

The TRE will smooth out low RPM throttle response but with the possible problem of the bike running rich, unless you have it custom mapped.

 

[dadofthree]

(Professor @ Jun. 01 2007,13:49) 99-00 Speedo will drop right in and read correctly (with the same error % as stock anyhow). Or you can get a face and adjust it with a speedohealer. However if you do the face speedohealer the mileage will not read exactly.

The PCIII will not defeat the limiter

Disconnect the TRE and see if it cleans it up. Different people have different opinions on if they work or not. Unless you have some mods and/or are a pretty light small guy, 186 mph is hard to break anyhow. There are other ways to break 186 without a TRE. The GPS mod to make it send 1N23455 instead of 1N23456 is (in my opinion) the best choice. If you prefer the way it performs with a TRE put in a switchable one and turn it on for your high speed run.

I agree with this opinion, yank that TRE and see if the soot clears up. If it does yank and clean those plugs or replace them.

I need to find a place that's safe to run GPS. My best to date.

 

[dadofthree]

I have a friend local who has a 2000. He's ran +193 at Maxton with 6K in the motor. He says that all it takes to run 200 is time and money.

 

[dadofthree]

Oh yeah, I would love to have the 220 gauges.

Professor, with the current 7 - 71/2% error is my mileage off

This error is on the plus side. Does this mean my 14K is really 13K

 

[Scottrod]

(Red05 @ Jun. 03 2007,09:06) The TRE will smooth out low RPM throttle response but with the possible problem of the bike running rich, unless you have it custom mapped.

I took off the TRE and it still runs just as rich. I figure when I get it dyno-tuned with the PCIII that should HOPEFULLY fix it. I guess I should still change the plugs? It just hit 10k miles and it's a 2002.

My main question is: will the TRE affect the readings for the PCIII? Can they be put on together? Does the TRE do anything besides make the bike think it's in 5th gear?

I know I can hook up the PCIII to my laptop and read the readings off it, will the readings be off with the TRE hooked up?

Like I said...I'd like to eventually do a top speed run so I want something to remove the limiter.

Lastly, anyone know someone or somewhere I can get a 99-00 gauge pod for a decent price? How much do they run?

 

[Luvanicebum]

I know the GIPro has a built in TRE function, I see alot of people running that unit with a PCIII

 

[mrkihn]

(Luvanicebum @ Jun. 03 2007,15:49) I know the GIPro has a built in TRE function, I see alot of people running that unit with a PCIII

That's what I run GiPro ATRE with the PCIIIb
and it seems to work fine

 

[samw5]

(Red05 @ Jun. 03 2007,09:06) The TRE will smooth out low RPM throttle response but with the possible problem of the bike running rich, unless you have it custom mapped.

how's advancing timing making the bike run rich?

if anything at all it would make it run a bit on the lean side.

 

[Johnnycheese]

(samw5 @ Jun. 08 2007,12:31)

(Red05 @ Jun. 03 2007,09:06) The TRE will smooth out low RPM throttle response but with the possible problem of the bike running rich, unless you have it custom mapped.

how's advancing timing making the bike run rich?

if anything at all it would make it run a bit on the lean side.

that is because a TRE does not advance the timing. this is a myth. all a TRE DOES IS ADD 10% MORE FUEL

 

[samw5]

that's interesting, so Suzuki's maps are fuel based not timing based? Not completely sold on that... adding more fuel to an engine that is running fine would make it run like crap, not so much smooth it out. If anything leaning it out would produce more significant gains.

How about the top speed limit... is it fuel cut off or spark??? Seems that cutting fuel isn't the safest way to go about restricting an engine speed.

 

[samw5]

(Johnnycheese @ Jun. 08 2007,18:58)

(samw5 @ Jun. 08 2007,12:31)

(Red05 @ Jun. 03 2007,09:06) The TRE will smooth out low RPM throttle response but with the possible problem of the bike running rich, unless you have it custom mapped.

how's advancing timing making the bike run rich?

if anything at all it would make it run a bit on the lean side.

that is because a TRE does not advance the timing. this is a myth. all a TRE DOES IS ADD 10% MORE FUEL

ok according to Ivan's site: "What the manufacturer has done is to make a SEPARATE IGNITION MAP FOR EACH GEAR.
This has been done for either safety and/or emissions reasons. However, it limits the power and smoothness of your bike in the first 1/2 turn of the throttle in gears 1 through 4."

According to the Haynes Suzuki manual: "The ignition timing settings is determined by the ECM, which compares the signals ite receives from the sensors to stored data in the form of ignition maps in its ROM."

Now if you can point me to the distributor on the busa I will believe you that the timing is static and unmapped but unless everyone else is wrong I don't believe it is touching the fuel map.

Bottom line until someone can explain me otherwise, my interpretation (and I'm not saying I'm right) is that the TRE should lean out the bike instead of enriching it (by advancing the timing), thus creates better response at lower RPM (in the form of torque).

I might be completely off but no1 seem to be capable of going into details on how this works...

 

[jpracecraft]

tyhe tre just makes the ecm thinks its in 5th gear and stays on the ign map for that gear. I read alot before putting a tre on my 07. It does help eliminate low end sluggishness somewhat. But not a true cure all. After changing the front gear to a 16 tooth in addition its crisp and quite responsive. If your puffing black its simply not a timing issue. If you have pc3 in it now it mapped wrong and dumping fuel . A good map should clean that right up. Check your air filter and plugs before getting crazy into cust maps. just my 2 cents

 

[Johnnycheese]

(samw5 @ Jun. 08 2007,21:51)

(Johnnycheese @ Jun. 08 2007,18:58)

(samw5 @ Jun. 08 2007,12:31)

(Red05 @ Jun. 03 2007,09:06) The TRE will smooth out low RPM throttle response but with the possible problem of the bike running rich, unless you have it custom mapped.

how's advancing timing making the bike run rich?

if anything at all it would make it run a bit on the lean side.

that is because a TRE does not advance the timing. this is a myth. all a TRE DOES IS ADD 10% MORE FUEL

ok according to Ivan's site: "What the manufacturer has done is to make a SEPARATE IGNITION MAP FOR EACH GEAR.
This has been done for either safety and/or emissions reasons. However, it limits the power and smoothness of your bike in the first 1/2 turn of the throttle in gears 1 through 4."

According to the Haynes Suzuki manual: "The ignition timing settings is determined by the ECM, which compares the signals ite receives from the sensors to stored data in the form of ignition maps in its ROM."

Now if you can point me to the distributor on the busa I will believe you that the timing is static and unmapped but unless everyone else is wrong I don't believe it is touching the fuel map.

Bottom line until someone can explain me otherwise, my interpretation (and I'm not saying I'm right) is that the TRE should lean out the bike instead of enriching it (by advancing the timing), thus creates better response at lower RPM (in the form of torque).

I might be completely off but no1 seem to be capable of going into details on how this works...

again this is a myth and has never been proved. the only fact is that 5th and 6th add 10% more fuel.
Thus like I have said and proved way too many times. if your bike is lean at 2750-3K (wow this is where EPA checks then) then adding fuel make the bike feel better. BUT some bikes are not really lean there and the bikes run wrose.
Bottom line is there are people who even with facts presented still don't believe. (just look how many want to but that stupid performance chip on ebay

)
Timing does not help a Busa trust me.

 

[samw5]

i would love to believe, but with all due respect your "evidence" isn't much of an evidence but rather you're just saying so.

it may be so that the fuel map adds gas in 5th gear to compensate for the added air (i'm assuming ram intake may be a reason why) but until someone actually shows hard facts rather than toss words up in the air.

i'm not trying to be an ass (and I'm sorry if I do sound like I won't give up) but every other source that I found on this topic says the same thing... even sources that just talk about timing rather than TREs. I would love to be able to get some technical content to prove it otherwise.

And regardless of how a TRE does it, installing one did feel like the bike was pulling harder with less throttle. At least IMO (not trying to convince anyone to install it, rather reporting my own impressions).

 

[samw5]

oh and no i'm not trying to win the argument (well maybe a bit... but wouldn't care of being wrong) but I would so much rather learn the truth and be presented with some hard facts rather than speculations (which so far I have also been doing, based on what was presented to me).

 

[Scottrod]

Yeah I don't have the PCIII on my bike yet it just arrived.  However I was told by the prior owner that this "Checkered Flag Motorsports" TRE that is on my bike should not be on at the same time as the power commander.  I'm not sure why.  I DO know I want the speed limiter removed and I DO know that I feel like the bike rides better in the lower RPM range when I have it on than when it's off...and that's just like the TRE is supposed to do.

My guess is that the TRE just makes the bike think it's in 5th gear all the time...period.  I would also think that 5th probably does have the additional 10% fuel because it would think that you're obviously cruising pretty good to be in that gear and that you're probably getting some decent air in the ram air tubes.

Now I'm wondering...when I get the PCIII installed, does it allow you to map each gear's fuel curve individually or what?  Does anyone know if it's okay for me to use this specific TRE with the PCIII?

I just need to know if it's best if I tune my bike on a dyno with the PCIII ALONE or with the TRE as well.  Like I said I'd like to keep the speed limiter removed and I have noticed that the bike is more responsive in low RPMs with the TRE but if the PCIII can change the fuel curve and timing I can get the same results without the TRE...

I'm sure this TRE debait has gone on before but I'm fairly new to my busa and these mods...so I'm going to have to beat this dead horse till I get a definite answer from someone who is SURE and KNOWS they are right.  

 

[SnapAttack]

What's a tre?

Sorry, couldn't resist.