Rocky-Bye Radiator fluid/flush failure

[RedFalco]

Howdy all.. Sry for the life journal-
Couple weeks back comin home from a pretty "hard" run, I pull up to the garage, get off the bike to enter garage code and notice small puddle of green under bike. Fan was on for a few then cycled off. Noticed temp gauge was just below half if not on it. Pulled the bike into the garage, turned the key off and for about 2 or 3 seconds, I had steam emitting from both sides below TripleTree; more dominate on left side. Turned out to be the overflow line directed towards bottom of engine case.
Spent a couple nights here on the Org researching this topic and I decide to go with a new thermistat and coolant change over to EngineIce.
Completly flushed coolant circuit with a 1 gallon mixture of distilled vinegar & water (1cup to the gallon); then ending with a gallon distilled water rinse before adding EngineIce.
I've been rocking this hog left and right now for 4 days...squeezing lines..etc... no dice... can't figure it out. I rock it left and right, fill w/fluid, rock it, fill it...till no bubbles. Fill reservoir to bottom line. Put radiator cap back on "loosly" to allow air to escape<>start the bike. Wait for the fluid to begin to spurt out, then tighten cap. I allowed the bike to remain at idle till the fan kicked on and off; then shut the bike down. Allow to cool, add fluid...rocky-bye lft and rght till legs are numb and no bubbles emerge. On the third or fourth cycle of doing this, I am at belief that the coolant circuit has no air and is ready for use as the fluid remains full to the neck.
Next day I go to work, roughly 45 miles out... temp gauge "normal" all the way... parked bike and notice fluid in reservoir was max out. Peak inside bottle and its an inch below the cap. Let it cool down for 8 hours and see the level now just above the 2nd line on the reservoir. Take her back home, let cool down and the fluid in the radiator is about 2 or 3 inches below neck; CRAP!! Reservoir about two inches above the 2nd line. I then MightyVac the reservoir to the low level, repeated the entire process again only this time taking the bike for a short ride instead of letting it sit at idle till the fan kicked on. When I arrived at work this morning same ordeal. Just got home and reservoir max'd and fluid in radiator is low I'm sure.
Someone mentioned at work that I may have the termastat in upside down. If I remember correctly its impossible to put it in upside down. But I'm at a point to where I'm gonna end up double checking that I'm sure.
I'm at a loss... please help.

 

[RedFalco]

Wow.. No one else has had a similar issue before?

Double backed on thermo<>all is well.
Been repeating the warmup cooldown cycle now for 8 days or so in garage. Leaving the cap off between each cycle thinking this thing is gonna burp, fart or something. Level in radiator and resivour remained good. Level on resivour would be high when hot (2nd line) and "normal" when cool (1st line).
Buttoned her all up last night to take her to work today.. Got there and here we go again; level on resivour about an inch below cap. Rechecked @ lunch and level dropped just a few but still way above 2nd line. Quittin time after work level remained the same... max'd out.
Bike ran "normal" all the way home (all highway).
As I got to the driveway to pull in; the temp started to rise above half. Fan did not kick on at all, so I'm thinking [air in circuit] as it was coming on the last eight days during the warmup cycles.
Got up driveway to the garage, pulled in and temp needle was just below high level almost in the red zone.
Instead of a little green puddle, I now had a little blue expensive puddle.
I'm sucking air BIGTIME into the cooling circuit when riding, but where?
Thinking potentially the radiator cap? Anywhere else, you would think a leak or drip would be seen.

 

[omslaw]

Couple things to try:

1) pressure test the cooling system; see if you can find a leak.

2) Leak-down test on all cylinders...this may show a crack in the head.


FWIW, I chased something similar to what you described. I was losing coolant over time. Took me 3 years, but I finally found the crack in the head... #2 cylinder. While I was running, it was blowing the coolant into the overflow.

Good luck...

 

[RedFalco]

Thank you sir.
I'll drain and pressure test right away. Recall reading a thread referring to the "low pressure side" of the cooling system; that a low pressure side leak will not drip, but insted suck air, causing the overflow tank to puke. <<Don't know how much truth there is to this statement. Where would the low pressure side be? Smaller hose on radiator cap side (not the overflow).
Just went out to check resivour level and it is now reading below the 1st line. (Normal minus the puddle that came from overflow)
Recalled reading your post and seeing pics on your cracked head. Gave me shivers seeing that pic. My worst fear with only 12k miles. Preciate ya!!

 

[RedFalco]

Pressure test with the cooling circuit drained checks out to be good. Performed the test with MVac adapter through radiator cap. It held 14psi of vacuum for 15minutes. Refilled radiator thinking that somehow putting a vacuum on the circuit would of "cured" something; purged circuit of air going through the lft/rght rocking method and warmup cycles 3 times. Fan came on/off as expected << all is well.
Took er' to work today and same shpeel. Resivour max; overheating when sitting still over lengthy lights. No fan when one tick above half on temp gauge whilst riding or sitting still.
New radiator cap on order......should be in on Thursday. (Them sucka's must be made of gold..$$$)

 

[Nicholas]

tested radiator cap? just a suggestion?

 

[RedFalco]

tested radiator cap? just a suggestion?

No, I don't have the orfice / attachment that would fit the cap to test it, so I just ordered a new one. I'm hopeful thats' all it will be; we'll see.
Thanks so much for the suggestion.

 

[GIXERHP]

No, I don't have the orfice / attachment that would fit the cap to test it, so I just ordered a new one. I'm hopeful thats' all it will be; we'll see.
Thanks so much for the suggestion.

You could still have a cracked head, or a bad head gasket!

To find it, the bike need to be hot!

 

[RedFalco]

You could still have a cracked head, or a bad head gasket!

To find it, the bike need to be hot!

Yeah...thank you.. I'm hopeful that will not be the case. Guess I'm off to the search engine to research "head gaskets". I know about as much as "the bike needs to be hot to check".... lol
Preciate all your input.

 

[busa dave]

sounds like a head gasket to me

 

[dmallord]

hopefully its the cap, if not... tear down for inspection.:down:

 

[MO-BUSA]

do you have flow??? can you see the water passing by in the radiator from the cap opening? if not you could have a bad water pump...just a thought...

 

[busa matt]

had the same prob with my 1397. head gasket. blowing bubbles when its hot. fine as long as i kept moving, as soon as i stopped she overheated.

 

[RedFalco]

hopefully its the cap, if not... tear down for inspection.:down:

Damn... Not the cap. Brand new one came in yesterday, purged air, went through the three warm up cycles ordeal till the fan came on (@ an idle). It does right at an idle warmup and cool down. Take it for a ride about 10 miles or so, right back at square one. My worst fear is looking like reality >> tear down.
:cry:

do you have flow??? can you see the water passing by in the radiator from the cap opening? if not you could have a bad water pump...just a thought...

Water pump and all hoses is all that is left. Can't really tell if I have flow. When I rock it back and forth to get air out and then top it off w/ fluid to the neck; I'd start it up with the cap off and it begins to rise and spills over. At one point I left the cap off, allowed it to run over... and I could see a couple bubbles rise to the top. I was in belief that it would burp at one point to where I would have to top it off w/ fluid; but it never did. Just kept rising and spilling over, then all of a sudden it started to GUSH out like a geyser everywhere. <<Had to shut it down at that point cause it just kept surging out the cap opening. (as said, like a geyser) Lost about 2 quarts of EngIce on that lesson. I started putting the cap on past the first lock going forward (so it could allow air to escape). I would completely close the cap when it started dripping steadily.
Really would'nt mind replacing a water pump before ripping the engine out for a head gasket change. If it is possible for the pump to cause this, I'm in. At 250.00 + for a pump, I'd really like to be sure (could use it towards head gasket work..lol). Would a water pump make the bike act like this without seeing leaks anywhere in the area of the waterpump? Thanks for your input.

had the same prob with my 1397. hea.d gasket. blowing bubbles when its hot. fine as long as i kept moving, as soon as i stopped she overheated.

My inner self is finding it hard to accept the headgasket to be at fault. No white smoke, the royal purple oil in the sight glass is just as purple as the day I put it in (no milkshake color at all), Just reaching 13k miles on the speedo. Not gonna say "I don't ride the bike hard", cause I do allittle, but I don't get carried away.
This ole gasket is gonna haunt me I'm sure.
You would'nt have any idea as to what the steelership may charge for such a job, would you? Would'nt mind doing it myself, but the idea of removing the engine really scares me.
:cry:

 

[MO-BUSA]

did you ever find help on this??? if not maybe we can find someone to help out???

 

[RedFalco]

did you ever find help on this??? if not maybe we can find someone to help out???

I believe so... at least I hope so..
Was about to take it up to those yo-yo's at the local stealership. Stopped by their service department after work on Wednesday to ask what they would charge on replacing a headgasket. Asked me why I would think the head gasket was bad. Went through all the above detail in verbatim. He was under the impression that they would need to look at it to determine the problem. Figured screw it; I'll run home grab the busa, purge it again and take it up there for a 75.00 sting in the butt for them to look at it on the chance that I'm overlooking something. I take the left and right side fairings off and drive it up there. I get there and look down at the resivour to see that it is right on the High level as it should be. Rev it up a bit.. waited about 30 secs and the fan kicks on. I get off the bike while its running to look under the resivour to see bubbles blowing from the stem. Rev it to 3rpms' bubbles pick up alittle bit in rythm.
Just at that time, dude comes out with his clipboard and asks me if this is the bike in question. I replied, yes it was and I believe I may have it figured out and to have a nice day.
I get home and resivour Max'd out with about an inch or so to spare from the top of the plug. Temp needle rising above half point and notice NO fan. <air in circuit> Remove the plug and smell down in there and could smell exhaust/gas odor.
Going with all the advice, input and the freindly neighborhood OrgSearch engine, I'm sold on the idea of replacing the head gasket. I'm good with removing the engine. I'll just need to take it to a surgen to get the gasket replaced along with inspecting the head for cracks of anykind. Still researching...lotta info out there on this topic.. May have a HD buddy that may be able to assist / guide the process.... don't know....Still in the air. I know I'm down for the season. I'm hopefull i can get away with just the gasket. I'll report back on root cause and hopefully closure.
lease:

Appreciate Ya!!

 

[riccoh]

At the tought of ripping the motor out and replacing the head gasket, a $75 fee is not that unreallistic for a leak down test from the stealership. changing the rad fluid is not that hard and can be done in a matter of hours (to get the air out of the system) and I also like to change the radiator cap along everytime I flush my system just for peace of mind..
Have you done a compression check?

 

[RedFalco]

No sir; no compression check done. Is it not possible for a headgasket to be bad and still "pass" a compression check?
thanks

 

[riccoh]

that will be the easiest other than the obvious way to look for a bad head gasket, all cylinders should be no more than 10% all around from each other,
if you had 1 cylinder with more than 10% diff from the other 3 then it could indicate a bad valve, but
if you had two adjacent cylinders with more than 10% lower compresion that could indicate ther area on which your head gasket had an issue and you can focus your attention when you take the head off .. just my 2 cents

 

[RedFalco]

Okay, I follow ya.
I'll check around for a "Cylinder Leak Down Test" procedure as initially stated by Omslaw and yourself. I just hate to put the money into analyzing something when its gonna be done anyway. But the benefits as stated, will be the potential of identifying the unthinkable at this juncture....lol..... a cracked head. Also to give an "area of focus" when referancing a faulty headgasket or head when its tore down.
Just figured if I get it back together w/ anew gasket and problem still exists..... Cracked head.
Maybe then it'll be a good time to start researching them there 1397 "bolt on" kits...lol

Sure do appreciate your time and thankyou.